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Old 11-19-2007, 02:34 AM
Open Mind Open Mind is offline
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Originally Posted by Rudism
Straw man. You presume that every single function of the human brain must have a specific evolutionary advantage. This isn't necessarily true--consider our ability to play the piano. Clearly, the ability to play the piano could not have emerged or developed due to evolutionary pressures--pianos did not even exist until some time in the 1700s.
I've never known someone to die from lack of piano playing. Not everyone has to play the piano but we all dream during sleep at night, whether we want to or not. If we don't sleep and dream then illness leading to death can occur. Would you consider avoidance of death an 'evolutionary advantage'?

When we are denied dreaming, a hallucinatory world seems to increasingly take over normal physical sense reality. Unlike piano playing, dreaming seems to have been so unstoppable or so necessary, sleep paralysis evolved to prevent sleep walking (or alternatively the consciousness on partially reducing interaction with the brain interface and physical senses increases a vivid/lucid creative dream state and the ability to consciously move the physical body is simultaneously reduced or lost at such times).

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The same tactics are used by creationists, thinking that pointing out holes in the theory of evolution is positive proof in support of a creator god. It doesn't work that way.
I am not a creationist. I believe in natural selection. I don't believe in the 'God of the Gaps' , but yes I do think what you call 'psi of the gaps' is a serious possibility (even if a weak effect) and it is legitimate to speculate until Neo Darwinism overcomes its 'luck of the gaps' or 'denial of the gaps'

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Science does give explanations for how dreaming developed, and there are theories about its purpose.
Well let's hear these, let's see how they could have evolved via natural selection. I accept natural selection, let's see how well they fit.

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Secondly, the fact that we can reproduce hallucinations and waking dream-like states using chemical and electrical stimulation of the brain
On my TV set I can change the brightness, contrast, colour, volume, etc. ...... I can even add snow to the screen! I can make the moving pictures rotate too! ... does that mean TV prorgrammes are generated in the TV set?

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, as well as track the different areas of the brain that are in use when this is happening (using fMRI machines) does seem to indicate pretty solidly that these things are strictly functions of the brain
Yes same here, when I change channel on my TV set, a particular area of the circuit board is activated, this provides conclusive evidence TV programs are within the TV set! My neighbour has some strange 'radio of the gaps' theory but due to adopting debunker's philosophy I have applied occams razor to rule it out as unnecessary

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You keep saying that the burden of proof is with the scientists to "prove" a materialist explanation for dreams, hallucinations, NDEs, and so on, but that's really not how science works.
Well if a debunker claims psi is false, they should accept the burden of proof either by experiment or logical argument. If however they say 'I doubt' psi is true (or 'I doubt the brain generates consciousness') well they don't have to accept any of the burden of proof, it is personal opinion, not a statment of fact. I think you would agree this is one of the fundamental differences between true scepticism and pseudo-scepticism.

Last edited by Open Mind; 11-19-2007 at 05:38 AM..
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