Can you feel energy?

[P_Synthesis]

Key Kim,

Slightly worried how far off topic we are, but let's see if we are caught...

On the whole transition thing, we are slightly at cross-purposes, probably my fault... I will just pick out a couple of things you said and show you what I mean.

First off on poverty: it is way worse in the states, but we are seeing something of it here. There are many political reasons why things are bad over there, but the bottom-line economic reason is that you use three times as much energy per capita as a European for the same standard of living.

Please understand, I totally, totally get that people are in difficulties. The kinds of things I'm talking about people needing to do are things that help with those difficulties. That's why I mentioned Transition Towns -- it's not about solar panels! It's about creating community and people growing food in their own gardens again, and learning to be more self-sufficient in things like clothing etc. It's the Great Depression again. It's about things that will save people money and trouble, not cost more.

On the question of grain, well there is certainly something in what you say... but I can tell you this: in 2008-9 there was a world food shortage and people in the states were growing wheat to sell as food because they could make serious money on it. That's going to happen again, there will be a huge shakedown and farming will become profitable. People need to hang in there, because I guarantee you, there will one day be a great deal of money (and respect) in being a farmer.

Have you read anything by Sharon Astyk or John Michael Greer? Google those guys...

Now personally what I've been told is that the math doesn't work out as far as running a society on alcohol as fuel. We are definitely on a downslope as far as available energy is concerned therefore, and oil production in the states peaked in the 70s. So to me it's no good calling it a state of mind thing -- yes there are business interests that haven't helped, but no amount of positive thinking can make more oil.

It's absolutely true that the system in the states is very unfair on the poor, many of whom are basically an underclass right now. Not denying that! Now you say:

I totally agree that keeping up with the Jones is a crazy persuit, but things are very very dire here.

... but when I talk about the foolishness of a 'belief in material progress' I'm not talking about keeping up with the Joneses. I'm talking about everyone believing that if we just have all the oil we want and enough new technology we are going to be living in a utopia. Even with all the direness that you are talking about, the US leadership still believes in this idea. That's why people can do better by taking things into their own hands.

A hundred years ago, unless you were either extremely rich or extremely poor, you did a lot of your own food and clothing production; it was just the way things were done. Some remember those old days and in the Transition Town movement they are reviving them -- this will benefit anyone no matter what their income. It's precisely about being able to provide 'food clothing and shelter' for a family, when the government has forgotten you.


On a different note -- your teacher sounds fantastic. Yes, believing you are stone nuts is quite common I understand... many people I know have had that. I personally had it in a slightly different way, but I can relate.

[Kim]

On the whole transition thing, we are slightly at cross-purposes, probably my fault... I will just pick out a couple of things you said and show you what I mean.

First off on poverty: it is way worse in the states, but we are seeing something of it here. There are many political reasons why things are bad over there, but the bottom-line economic reason is that you use three times as much energy per capita as a European for the same standard of living.

Ummm... IDK why except that our population is spread out which makes for more driving. Personally it's a seven mile drive to go into town. I have relatives in Idaho who drive a couple hours just to get to a town.

It's about creating community and people growing food in their own gardens again, and learning to be more self-sufficient in things like clothing etc. It's the Great Depression again. It's about things that will save people money and trouble, not cost more.

That's how it was here in the sixties and seventies. Then in the eighties people started being more busy with other things... a lot of people garden though, and always have.

On the question of grain, well there is certainly something in what you say... but I can tell you this: in 2008-9 there was a world food shortage and people in the states were growing wheat to sell as food because they could make serious money on it. That's going to happen again, there will be a huge shakedown and farming will become profitable. People need to hang in there, because I guarantee you, there will one day be a great deal of money (and respect) in being a farmer.

hmmm... never heard of a food shortage here. We had a bad growing season due to dry weather two years straight, but we have massive grain storage to cover it. This summer will be better. In the rest of the world there may be shortages but I'm most positive they are economically driven.

There might be ups and downs, due to weather, but that is just the nature of farming. I really do not believe a famine is comming. There is no reason to think so that I know of.

I think that grain alcohol could be a big part of our future, but only because gas companies have been able to control that too. Most of our gas now contains grain in mixture with petrol. It isn't the whole solution, but it's a part. No one thing is going to fix this.

Solar is also popular now for people who can afford it... and there is wind... water etc.Hydro cars, and are too expensive, but eventually it might work, if the price goes down.

Have you read anything by Sharon Astyk or John Michael Greer? Google those guys...

Hmm... checking it out now... If you are interested in food storage though, try the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints LDS (Mormon) sites. Do a google on LDS for survival and food storage. They are experts. They have more experience about that than anyone else. They put up some really nice sites around Y2K. Many are probably still up.

Now personally what I've been told is that the math doesn't work out as far as running a society on alcohol as fuel. We are definitely on a downslope as far as available energy is concerned therefore, and oil production in the states peaked in the 70s. So to me it's no good calling it a state of mind thing -- yes there are business interests that haven't helped, but no amount of positive thinking can make more oil.

Well I do believe that faith could produce more oil, but I think there are wiser alternatives to oil in the first place. Overall though we are way too oil dependent, and renewable energy is the way to go. Judging from all the global warming info... not to mention smog... we don't need more oil.... we need a better solution, and THAT requires positive thinking, or at least calm clear thinking... not panic.

Positive thinking... well that is one thing, but Faith is a very powerful thing. Faith can heal cancer, raise the dead, deliver drug additcs etc. It can also stretch resources... ie.. the loaves and fishes story, and the oil and meal story in the bible. I've seen stuff like that work, but it takes faith, and when faith faulters... and panic sets in, people can't do anything right. Without the belief that things will get better, they won't ever, for many many obvious reasons... number one of which is that eventually people stop trying to excel and concentrate on bare survival. The become depressed and despondent.

It's absolutely true that the system in the states is very unfair on the poor, many of whom are basically an underclass right now. Not denying that! Now you say:

I am glad you know that. Even here in the states there is a myth that most people are middle class. Poor people believe it and feel left out, rich (middle class) people believe it, and it's simply not true. A simple graph of median income disproves it and always has. One cannot live the middle class life on a median income. Some people have gone into debt trying to appear to be middle or yuppie, and the ruse has caught up with those people in a very bad way. The truth is they make no more, or in some cases LESS money than those of who have been scratching just to live on what we make. Therefore they are behind and owing money. Due to this false front though, the myth that most people were middle class was perpetuated through the eighties and ninties. The fact is 75 percent of all Americans are poor and half are poverty stricken... but those people don't matter at all to our officials. That is the real reason people fake it. Because they are badly treated if they show they are poor. The average people are desposable, in the same since as the children working in work houses were despensible in 1850's London. Our country has been run throughout the Regan through Bush years in a way that told us that everyone is middle class, and those other people which everyone sees all the time, do not even exist. The world ignores their plight and denies their existance.

... but when I talk about the foolishness of a 'belief in material progress' I'm not talking about keeping up with the Joneses. I'm talking about everyone believing that if we just have all the oil we want and enough new technology we are going to be living in a utopia. Even with all the direness that you are talking about, the US leadership still believes in this idea. That's why people can do better by taking things into their own hands.

The people Bush and his cronies cared about do live in Eutopia, always have and always will. The billionares will be fine. No one else mattered to him. He prefered that everyone else starve out anyway. The rest of us have always struggled. Sure we might have a few luxuries, like a gaming system, or a wide screen TV now since the price went down... but overall none of us think this is eutopia. Still we do believe that things will go on like they always have. The direness does not touch Washington. Even Obama is clueless to the real suffering. He talks about it, but then he thinks tax cuts will help... we have to have more money before we can even think about taxes.

A hundred years ago, unless you were either extremely rich or extremely poor, you did a lot of your own food and clothing production; it was just the way things were done. Some remember those old days and in the Transition Town movement they are reviving them -- this will benefit anyone no matter what their income. It's precisely about being able to provide 'food clothing and shelter' for a family, when the government has forgotten you.

Yes, but a lot of things have changed here. The world will NOT tolerate you taking your horse and wagon into town. They won't tolerate you getting your power cut off. Child protective services will come get your kids if you try to live without electricity... especially if you are not a yuppie just doing it for fun. Many of the things our ancestors took for granted people don't even have. My grandpa's barn colapsed 20 years ago, during Hurricaine Hugo. I don't have a mule and plow, and nowhere to keep them if I did. No one here raises cotton anymore, and I'd be hard pressed to find a working spinning wheel. Fabric is more expensive than clothing anyway. Besides I can go to the flea market and buy a whole outfit for 8 dollars. Clothing is cheep and plentiful right now. Even the exclusive stores are cheeper than Wal Mart used to be because the market is glutted with clothing, and decorative items. my main point is that along with all the other problems we are all being watched. The government sticks their nose in everything. Everything has to look right or local officials get their panties in a bunch and come tell you to clean up the mess, or inquire about the comfort and safety of your kids.

On a different note -- your teacher sounds fantastic. Yes, believing you are stone nuts is quite common I understand... many people I know have had that. I personally had it in a slightly different way, but I can relate.

I am so thankful to her for just letting me know that she saw what I saw. I have been covering for my 'halucinations' from the time I was 3 till I was about 20. I never told my mom after a few times when I was about three. It was clear that I had to figure out what was "real' from my 'imagination' This process was based purely on likelyhood, since one LOOKED just as real as the other when I was little. Eventually... by the time I was 8 or 10 I started detecting a little bit of transparency to my visions. Until then everything was as plain as my hand in front of my face. I also experienced occasional channeling from the time I was 13, which was always hard to explain... especially when I refered to myself in the third person.

[P_Synthesis]

Well Kim I guess I totally agree with you that the poor are neglected in the US and I have known it for a long while. I also never thought Obama would do any good -- no-one in the government will, not right now. Personally I think the rich ultimately will suffer the fate of all leading classes in decline (betrayal and murder) but I don't care either way... it will make little difference by then.

What does puzzle me a little is that you think faith can make more oil and food (when some very Christian countries have been in permanent famine for the entire 20th c), but faith can't make a few officials look the other way when you start to feed and clothe yourself differently... my own experience suggests the latter is a little easier to accomplish than the former by nonphysical means. (BTW I'm not a Christian, just so you know.)

But please, don't think I'm recommending pure survivalism! Canning is important, sure... but community far more so. Did you check out transition towns? There are already 300 of them around the world, w/ more on the way...

Transition Towns WIKI :: TransitionNetwork / TransitionCommunities

It was clear that I had to figure out what was "real' from my 'imagination' This process was based purely on likelyhood, since one LOOKED just as real as the other when I was little.

Oh man, does that ring true!

Nice talking to ya.

[Kim]

Well Kim I guess I totally agree with you that the poor are neglected in the US and I have known it for a long while. I also never thought Obama would do any good -- no-one in the government will, not right now.

I won't say that Obama will do no good, and at this point, just not doing harm is a major selling point for him. I don't think he understands the problems completely... or he forgets sometimes, but with Obama it's a bit like becoming a new forest ranger two weeks after the forest burned down. He's got to clear the debries, plant some trees and then wait for them to grow... it's a long process. I don't know of anyone who could do any better, but as you said there is a limit to what anyone can do.

Personally I think the rich ultimately will suffer the fate of all leading classes in decline (betrayal and murder) but I don't care either way... it will make little difference by then.

It will take another generation or two to even think of any kind of serious revolt, if that is what you mean.

What does puzzle me a little is that you think faith can make more oil and food (when some very Christian countries have been in permanent famine for the entire 20th c), but faith can't make a few officials look the other way when you start to feed and clothe yourself differently... my own experience suggests the latter is a little easier to accomplish than the former by nonphysical means. (BTW I'm not a Christian, just so you know.)

Christianity is a widely varied religion, which is often not understood or practiced well by those who espouce it. It's not necessessarily that people are not sincere, they are just too religious to practice their faith by experience and trial and error. They are afraid of doing it wrong so they just don't do it... are afraid to read books from what they consider the enemy camp, and do not understand universal spiritual principals or miracle working.

I have read a lot more than just my bible. I've read
the Gita,
most of the Gnostic Society Library,
The Gnostic Society Main Page
Autobiography of a Yogi[URL=http://www.crystalclarity.com/yogananda/[/URL]
Additionally I have read Christian materials from many different denominations, and various evangelists from Oral Roberts to Pope John Paul. Plus anything else I could get my hands on.
Also I have experienced many things in my life as a practitioner, that my church would probably not sanction.
Most Christians are afraid to read other stuff. They have their Bible, and their denominational view and their religion forbids that they seek beyond that. My teacher taught me to study everything that even remotely related to what I want to know, without fear... descretely if necessary but not to fear reading other texts.

I know this is going to sound like sacralige to most Christians but I believe I practice faith based magic. I am fairly self styled, but in general while some people who do Ceremonial magic use their will, I use my faith. I need no props or circles, not that I am putting that down, just that I don't need it. Instead my props are in that world we both know... and my mom used to call imagination. I do believe in miracles, because I have seen many of them. I've seen a lot of physical healings, and several occasions where physical laws were bent.

In general there are spiritual principles that are universal in all spiritual practices, and in life in general. One is sharing things makes them multiply... like seeds that you put in the ground, and from one seed you get a whole plant, but you have to put the seed down to get it. The second is that if you have some of something, you can stretch it, or even make it more by both natural and supernatural means as long as you believe you can. In general you can do whatever you truely believe you can, and I have seen resources multiply before. It's kind of neat. No I can't prove it... nor would I try, but it works better if you don't worry about observing how it happens.

Supernatural growth is possible. but the principle is true in the natural too... even without faith. A store pays ten cents an item for a box of twenty of something. They have two dollars invested in the box, but in time they sell the items for 2 dollars each, and therfore, make 2 dollars into 40 dollars. It's not magic but it works. If one has a box of pancake mix, and a bag of flour.. and they need to make more pancakes than the box will make, they can add some of the flour and make enough pancakes. The point is that even in the natural you can do things to cause increase if you have creativity and something... most anything to start with.

One can, if one is creative and has know how, make whatever you need out of scraps that others would throw away and you can get for free, or cheep. That is creating resources just as much as supernaturally making it is.

But please, don't think I'm recommending pure survivalism! Canning is important, sure... but community far more so. Did you check out transition towns? There are already 300 of them around the world, w/ more on the way...

Transition Towns WIKI :: TransitionNetwork / TransitionCommunities

Wow this is really practical. I see this is feasable. It's not survivalism, but of course those skills are great to have too. I see that in the future, we will need a wide variety of skills. I love this idea though. It does remind me of the community I was born in, and I do think it could be really work

I know my survival skills, and really it is great to know in case something goes horribly wrong, but day to day it's a lot of hard work, and no fun, to live that way, and unless you are in peak physical shape, most of that stuff isnt' going to be possible. It does help to know though... in case you get snowed in without power for a week or two or something. (actually did that once)

Oh man, does that ring true!

Nice talking to ya.

Very cool, and I learned a lot. I found this conversation a lot of food for thought.

[P_Synthesis]

It will take another generation or two to even think of any kind of serious revolt, if that is what you mean.

Yes I don't think that will happen soon, but I am thinking long term.

Agree to disagree on Obama.

I am well aware that there is such a thing as Christian magic (always has been), and I have no problem with most Christians I meet. All I said was, I'm not one.

[Kim]

Yes I don't think that will happen soon, but I am thinking long term.

I agree that in the future it might happen... and may be necessary.

Agree to disagree on Obama.

Fair enough. I'm just saying he inherited an awful mess, and at least he KNOWS that it is a mess. He's trying to fix it, and that puts him head and shoulders above most politicians. He at least sort of grasps the situation. Most of them are totally clueless. Bush and Co. created the current situation deliberately. It is what their party wants, and the Republicans, are fighting him every step of the way. They obviously want a full scale depression. Does Obama know how to fix it? Is he going about it the right way? Is it possible to fix it? Who knows, but at least the man is trying.

I am well aware that there is such a thing as Christian magic (always has been), and I have no problem with most Christians I meet. All I said was, I'm not one.

Oh I know I talk too much, and tend to overexplain. I understand that you are not Christian. I was just explaining... LOL I would love to hear about your belief and/or practice... I love to listen too. I know a lot of people who do not identify themselves as Christian, who are vastly benevolent.

A lot of people now days are turned off by the way modern Christians conduct themselves, and others just haven't given it much thought. Christianity isn't a Religion to me, so much as a relationship, plus its sort of like working a job I love.

Kim

[P_Synthesis]

lol, still wondering how we get this back to whether we can feel energy or not...

Yes I am not one of those who hasn't thought, read, or talked to people about Christianity. I'm well aware that the spread of experiences is very wide in humanity. You might be interested in the Marilynn Hughes episode of the skeptiko podcast:

Skeptiko Interview With Marilynn Hughes, Out of Body Travel Experiment | Skeptiko - Science at the Tipping Point

She's an OBE expert who works with the Catholic church and seems very devout -- but she claims to have met all sorts of being out of body apart from Jesus, including Zarathustra for example!

Not to mention all those very interesting incidents of bilocation, levitation, manifestation etc. that are accepted charisms within both Catholic and Orthodox churches.


My own b/g is a little different... basically I met and got energy and techniques from this guy:

Dr. Glenn J. Morris, author, martial artist, healer, sage - Hoshin Budo Ryu, Rob Williams, Soke

... he's passed now but is still much loved and met-with; other people teach his methods. That was ten years ago. Before that I had only a bunch of experiences as a child. Since then -- I've done a lot! But that's another story.

[Kim]

ol, still wondering how we get this back to whether we can feel energy or not...

Yes, sorry about that... It started as just me giving an example of types of energies and how we as sensitive people, could not only feel but fall prey to overwhelming societal energies, and also how we can combat those both in ourselves, and to try to help free our neighbors from the grip of contageous neg energy fields. I guess for me feeling was never the problem... controling that feeling IS though.

I guess though we both proved we can certainly feel energies.

Yes I am not one of those who hasn't thought, read, or talked to people about Christianity. I'm well aware that the spread of experiences is very wide in humanity. You might be interested in the Marilynn Hughes episode of the skeptiko podcast:

Skeptiko Interview With Marilynn Hughes, Out of Body Travel Experiment | Skeptiko - Science at the Tipping Point

She's an OBE expert who works with the Catholic church and seems very devout -- but she claims to have met all sorts of being out of body apart from Jesus, including Zarathustra for example!

Thanks for the link... this thing is slow loading... and just stoped. I"m going to have to download, but it sounds a lot like what I do. I wouldn't say I am apart from Jesus when I speak to others, but yes I do speak to all sorts of entities... To me it is just like in physical life. We may be in constant prayer, but we still speak to our neighbors, our co-workers, and anyone else who wishes to tell us something. Generally if I see someone I speak to them, and my spiritual life is the same way. I've had to meet with a lot of entities in the course of my work, both positive and negative. It's my job. If the president meets with a foreign diplomat he is not working outside of his office, or being unAmerican. He's there because of his office. That's how I view speaking to others.

Not to mention all those very interesting incidents of bilocation, levitation, manifestation etc. that are accepted charisms within both Catholic and Orthodox churches.

My theory on bilocation within the astral/spiritual worlds, is that we are all multiply located but it is very hard on the physical mind, and mind's eye so to speak, to be constantly aware of more than two. I have had times when I have had multiple overlaps that were interfering with my physical sight, while I was going through my daily life. I prefer to only be aware of other places when I am in meditation, or at least light trance... and not when I'm at work or dealing with a sick parent, but unfortunately that does happen sometimes. At any rate not being aware of bilocation does not rule out the possibility that everyone is. I KNOW that many spiritually unaware people are bilocated, often the location of a person impacts their frame of mind.

My own b/g is a little different... basically I met and got energy and techniques from this guy:

Dr. Glenn J. Morris, author, martial artist, healer, sage - Hoshin Budo Ryu, Rob Williams, Soke

Oh Kundlini. I am very interested in this, and practice a form of it, but my physical body is not up to martial arts any more. I've tried, but all I got was shin splints, sore feet, and felt like I was going to have a heart attack. LOL I greatly respect Martial Arts and Yoga teachers though. I had a great teacher for that too, but I just couldn't keep up with the class.

He says "Enlightenment is a biological process." I hope not... I mean I try from time to time, and I have to say I do better with moderate exercise, but sometimes I just can't muster the physical energy. I stay very depleated on physical energy and always have. Even as a child I suffered a certain amount of lethargy, and now I border on Chronic Fatigue.

... he's passed now but is still much loved and met-with; other people teach his methods. That was ten years ago. Before that I had only a bunch of experiences as a child. Since then -- I've done a lot! But that's another story.

I think you are a very wise person, and it makes sense that you are into eastern teachings. Eastern teachings influence people to a sweeter spirit, and a more gentle approach to life. I find nothing in it that conflicts even slightly with Christianity. Did you know that Krishna and Christ are the same word in many languages? I believe it is the same spirit that we all speak of. Many Yogis accept Christianity, Buddism, and Krishna many others too, as the same. Generally I do too. I think that revelation came to many peoples, but Jesus was an incarnation of that same spirit... possibly not the only time that happened either. I am not sure though. I spent a year on an eastern forum. I loved it, and learned a lot. They have the same spirit that I consider to be REAL Christianity.

I have great respect for physical martial arts... yoga, and other forms of fitness, though it is not one of my personal strong suits. I am well aware that housing my spirit in my body is like putting a corvette engine in a wooden wagon... it's not likely to hold up very well on the test drive. LOL I really need to work on it.

I'd Love to hear your stories some time. Feel free to PM me any time.

[P_Synthesis]

Good theory on astral bilocation which I do agree with from experience -- but of course, it's physical bilocation for which the Catholic Saints are famous. Eg. Mysteries marvels miracles - the miraculous in lives of the saints - bilocation multiplication levitation telepathy

He says "Enlightenment is a biological process." I hope not...

He's not actually talking about physical exercise. What he means is that if you're really enlightened it has effects on your body, rather than just your soul. (Some of those effects I can confirm eg. sweet saliva.) He used to say that as a counter to the idea (which some westerners have) that enlightenment is 'off in the blue yonder' and doesn't deal with the physical, here-and-now stuff. You already knew that though.

BTW I don't just deal with eastern stuff like Doc's, I also work with Western eg.

Amazon.com: Initiation into Hermetics (9781885928122): Franz Bardon: Books

http://www.astraldynamics.com/home/

... etc. etc.

I stay very depleated on physical energy and always have. Even as a child I suffered a certain amount of lethargy, and now I border on Chronic Fatigue.

I'm sorry to hear that... have you ever tried herbs or homeopathy, something like that? I would say the energy work I do gives me a certain amount of pep; sometimes it clears me out in a big unpleasant detox, a legacy from Glenn, leaving me much lighter. The stuff I studied did always centre on this idea of co-ordinating soul with body, like the Chinese stuff for example with the meridians, clearing blockages etc. Any access to acupuncture out where you are?

I think you are a very wise person

Ha, I know a little about wisdom from watching a couple of wise people, and as yet, I don't have it -- although I'm going in the right direction. But you're very sweet, and it sounds like you are doing great work.

[Kim]

Good theory on astral bilocation which I do agree with from experience -- but of course, it's physical bilocation for which the Catholic Saints are famous. Eg. Mysteries marvels miracles - the miraculous in lives of the saints - bilocation multiplication levitation telepathy

Thanks, and as for PHYSICAL bi-location IDK. I am not sure if it is truely physical, or if it is like Astral projection. or like the Rainbow body described in Autobiography of a Yogi. It is really hard to tell from most Christian literature. I mean technically everytime someon projects they are bi-located but most people can't see them... some can. I also know that some projections are more easily visable than others. Some are even palpable and can move objects.

Quote:
He says "Enlightenment is a biological process." I hope not...

He's not actually talking about physical exercise. What he means is that if you're really enlightened it has effects on your body, rather than just your soul. (Some of those effects I can confirm eg. sweet saliva.) He used to say that as a counter to the idea (which some westerners have) that enlightenment is 'off in the blue yonder' and doesn't deal with the physical, here-and-now stuff. You already knew that though.

I guess so... all of the above. Here and now, and wild blue Yonder. Something happened that ended me up in the wild blue yonder for a good while... It was awful really. I really do not know what it was but I was in horrible shape for a couple of years. I had blackouts, I don't know where I was most of that time physically or astrally... but when I came to myself I realized that I had gone on, and that I'd been doing all the things I would normally do... I just don't remember most of it. I think I was stuck in some kind of two year NDE or something. I came around only once in a while for two years. I'd sort of wake up, and be driving down the road with my two kids. I'd have to figure out non alarming ways to ask my oldest where we were going, cause I didn't have a clue, but always I had a grocery list, or the bill I was supposed to pay with me. At random times I'd wake up, and I'd have be in the middle of a conversation, or walking around. I'd have no clue... what was going on, but I tried to fake it, and no one but my oldest daughter even guessed I was having that kind of difficulty. She though, said I was a man sometimes... and that he seemed more or less coherant while I was a total space cadet when I was conscious at all.

After that Gary had to explain he was still with me. The farm boy I mentioned earlier... my soul twin... He had to explain what happened, as best he could, but we don't really know what caused it... It started, a day or two after childbirth... my second. Gary said I was not only unconscious physically but passed out cold on the Castle floor in the the astral. Sometimes I would become semi conscious there, much as I was doing here, and that they had to watch me to keep me from wandering off into the fog. Gary decided to try to run my body rather than let me just lie unconscous here. He said being in the body was like being on heroin or something. He could barely function, but he managed.

When I regained my facilities fully, which took even more years, I was aware not only of here but of the castle and of heaven. I began to understand life there, as I started to re evaluate my situation here. One seemed as real as the other, but of course heaven was more pleasant. I also understood that I had been in heaven for over a thouand years, and had memories of those times, and of past lives, but I had never left heaven, throughout all of my lifetimes I also maintained a presence there, and there, Gary had always been with me.

I've studied and read up on the situation from all angles, but I still do not understand what went wrong with me. It changed me though. I used to be at least capable of having a temper. Now I am much more peaceful, even more lethargic, and really my ego was non-existant for a long time... I thought maybe I went through ego death... but eventually something more or less similar to an ego tried to resurface. It's really on and off though, and a lot of times I still just feel kind of numb.. my emotions show a lot less, and my body seems distant. I often get the sensation of running my body on remote control from heaven. When this gets extreme I am impervious to physical pain, and nothing here seems real. I have trouble making myself do things, or take interest in non spiritual persuits.

I don't know what this is, but I have asked a lot of people, and thought I would ask you what you thought. Have you ever heard of anything like this?

That sounds a lot like what I do. I borrow from a lot of sources, and adapt things to make them work for me. I do most things on instinct though, and don't really plan them... I've read stuff from other cultures, only to think wow! I didn't know anything about that, but I've been doing it for years.

I'm sorry to hear that... have you ever tried herbs or homeopathy, something like that? I would say the energy work I do gives me a certain amount of pep; sometimes it clears me out in a big unpleasant detox, a legacy from Glenn, leaving me much lighter. The stuff I studied did always centre on this idea of co-ordinating soul with body, like the Chinese stuff for example with the meridians, clearing blockages etc. Any access to acupuncture out where you are?

All of that seems to help for a while, and then it seems to get less effective... plus I have a decided lack of ability to stick to anything any more. I forget to take my supliments, when I am busy with other things. In theory I totally agree with co-ordinating soul with body, but it seems that despite my good intentions mine have had some sort of divorce. LOL I've been trying for years to get back into my body more, but I still feel like I am in perpetual OBE, and only remote viewing my life. I still manage to get things done, but my body drags behind me every step of the way. It really doesn't seem to work right any more.

I did go to the doctor about two and a half years after my dauther was born. He sent me to all the specialists. Only the sleep clinic found anything. They discovered that sometimes my brain waves show I am asleep, even though I am obviously awake. I'd love to know which type of sleeping brain waves I have but they did not say, and I was too sleepy to ask. They experimented with me a bit and found that I could read accurately, speak coherantly, answer questions, and remember all that was said in conversations, even though I was technically asleep. Oh and also I have a thyroid condition, underactive, but I've always took meds for that... when I can remember them that is.

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I think you are a very wise person

Ha, I know a little about wisdom from watching a couple of wise people, and as yet, I don't have it -- although I'm going in the right direction. But you're very sweet, and it sounds like you are doing great work.

Thanks, I think a sign of wisdom and knowledge is knowing that you don't have enough of it. The more I learn, the more I realize I don't know. Wisdom is the same way, so if you realize you aren't wise, it means you are well on your way to attaining much of it. If you were not, you would not know how much you still lack.

I wish I had more time and energy for doing work. I have been caught in that sandwich between raising my kids, and caring for my elderly mother for years. My husband also requires time and attention. Overall I spend most of my time listiening to, and caring for my family. It is quite emotionally exhausting, especially in my condition. I wish I could feel more free to travel, or get out into the community more.

Kim