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Bigotry against spiritualism. A challenge to all Christian 'new age' conspiracy theorists

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  • Bigotry against spiritualism. A challenge to all Christian 'new age' conspiracy theorists

    Do you believe in a satanic 'new age' conspiracy theory? If so I am challenging the reader to provide decent evidence that such a thing exists.

    First I must remind readers, I am not religious but tolerant of religion. I am agnostic on what the term 'God' means, it is beyond definition or human understanding in my opinion. If I pray (and who doesn't at times?) I am far more likely to pray to a power of goodness than any being type of God with unknown historical origins. I am also 99% certain psi exists due to lab tests and field tests. I've witnessed a few cases strongly suggestive of survival of brain death.

    Are most religions part of spiritualism?
    Arguably yes. I would only call myself a 'spiritualist' *if* the term only means 'one who believes there is evidence for human spirits communicating after brain death' However in this non-religious sense, almost every religion's origin falls within spiritualist claims even Christianity cannot escape spiritualism (e.g. the bible claims Moses and Elijah were seen after their physical death)

    'Fraudulent conjurers/tricksters are fake spiritualists not 'fraudulent spiritualists'
    Often media (with its traditional bias against spiritualism) have labelled fraudulent conjurers and other tricksters out to make money as 'fraudulent spiritualists' and in many cases these frauds were anti-spiritualists. For example most political materialists skip over the fact Harry Houdini started his career as a fake spiritualist for money.
    According to a Ray Hyman interview (co-founder of CSIcop with James Randi) even James Randi was a fake medium in his early days for money. If true, these are examples of fake spiritualists, not 'fraudulent spiritualists', they didn't believe in what they were doing and had some other motivation.

    Here is what this topic is about .
    Last edited by Open Mind; May 21st, 2014, 12:25 PM. Reason: Typos

  • #2
    Are Christian conspiracy theorists playing numberless dot to dot?

    I am not against conspiracy theories or speculation (history is full of real conspiracies) but all over the internet are Christian videos are claiming secret satanic 'new world order'. The evidence seems muddled to me.

    The Christian theory that a 'new age' = 'new world order' = 'freemasonry' (occult symbolism) etc. = spiritualism or any non-Christian religion = work of Satan .... is completely unproven IMHO .
    So I am challenging any Christian supporter of these theories, to join this forum where your privacy is respected, provide decent evidence and not just your own mental associations
    You have to address these issues

    (1) Yes there are clearly people out there who want globalism, what has this to do with spiritualism?

    (2) What does 'occult' secret knowledge have to do with spiritualism?

    For example Christian's keep mentioning Aleister Crowley (in)famous for occult ritual but most Christian conspiracy theorists don't know he opposed spiritualism. This is numberless dot to dot for conspiracy theorists to claim any direct link.

    (3) It is true that some brotherhoods (i.e. nothing directly to do with spiritualism) believe in secret occult knowledge but where is the clear connection to spiritualism? Blavatsky's theosophy is not spiritualism, she merely included the spiritualistic (survival) element and tagged on ancient mysticism but almost every religion does that, including Christianity!

    (4) Freemasonry (which I am not involved with) includes all religions .. so one cannot pick and choose just some masons to suit your Christian conspiracy theory . most freemasons in the western world were in fact Christians. Can you even provide proper evidence that freemasonic symbolism has anything to do with satanism? The part of bible (Issiah) translated to Lucifer is removed in modern translation because otherwise the morning or day star in Revelation is supposedly Christ. It seems to me any ancient symbolism not part of Christian symbolism is being labelled 'satanic'.

    (5) The Christian conspiracy theory of a satanic 'new age' cult taking over world seems lacking evidence. It is Christians who believe in the coming of a 'day of judgement' on earth, which could also be called a 'new world order' when other beliefs are supposedly wiped out. In contrast most organized spiritualists groups do not even believe in a 'new age' on earth they believe earth is a place of learning, not a place of perfection.
    Last edited by Open Mind; May 21st, 2014, 12:23 PM.

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    • #3
      Some Christians are now claiming on internet spiritualists (e.g. Arthur Conan Doyle) are part of secret sinister plots to murder people …... it is hardly likely spiritualists who believe they cannot escape their own sins (unlike Christians) and believe all wrong actions rebounds upon themselves in life or an afterlife, would conspire in such to do that..

      Spiritualist seances are sinister?
      Perhaps the main reason Christians assume spiritualism is something sinister and secret is due to seances . Spiritualist seances are most often in the form of meditation groups with sitters giving mental impressions afterwards. More rarely groups seeking 'physical phenomena' do not meditate but sing hymns (sometimes Christian hymns, any positive songs) as physical phenomena seems more common in energetic mental states than quiet meditation. I've visited various spiritualist seances over decades (to look for evidence) none of these, absolutely none of these were any attempt made to perform an occult magic ritual or contact non-human spirits.

      Are Christian conspiracy theorists playing numberless dot to dot? If you want to believe in a satanic conspiracy theory, all I am asking for you to provide is decent evidence. Post it here. I will post some of these Christian videos and we can discuss whether these have merit or are barking up the wrong tree and should be looking elsewhere for world problems..
      Last edited by Open Mind; May 21st, 2014, 12:28 PM. Reason: typos

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      • #4
        Christians have no good reasons to reject the teachings of Spiritualism because Spiritualists are in accordance with the teachings of the Bible. Jesus says in the Bible that his followers should exceed his work, and the bible says Jesus was a healer and medium (transfiguration), so Christians should accept the teachings of spirits that come through mediums.

        However, some fundamentalist Christians may feel the the need to stage a propaganda campaign against Spiritualism because the teachings of spirits that have come through mediums contradict many of the core beliefs of Christianity. I was taught at Spiritualist church that Jesus was an advanced soul who incarnated as a healer, medium, spirit rescue worker (casting out demons), and teacher Many Spirits communicating through mediums say your religious beliefs or lack of them don't matter in the afterlife and that the core tenets of Christianity, vicarious atonement, and eternal damnation etc are false. The principles of Spiritualism say that you must earn your way to the higher levels of the spirit world (heaven) and that you can start anytime here or hereafter. You don't get a free ticket to heaven by faith. So it is understandable that people who believe in Christian dogma want to discredit Spiritualist teachings.

        Not all Christians are against Spiritualism. There are many different forms of Christianity. Many Christians go to mediums, and not all Christians believe in an extremist exclusivist form of Christianity. I am a Spiritualist and some of the most spiritual people I know of are Christians and I admire them for trying to follow Jesus' commandment to love others.
        Last edited by anonymous; May 21st, 2014, 11:33 AM.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by anonymous View Post
          Christians have no good reasons to reject the teachings of Spiritualism because Spiritualists are in accordance with the teachings of the Bible.
          Parts of the bible, true ...as you know, there are other parts comdemning 'spiritism' or 'familiar spirits' but few Christians today would accept the morality of the (old) testament such as 'ye shall not suffer a witch to live' , particularly since *some* Christians seems to think any paranormal claim contrary to the bible must be witchcraft ... circular reasoning.

          The bible has no consistent opinion on what exactly occurs after death, as a result Christian sects have failed to agree. The most harsh critics of spiritualism has been the Christian sects that believe that all 'dead' humans sleep until a day of judgement on earth because spiritualism is contrary to that very claim. They claim it must be demons pretending to be human and throw out their own bible advice elsewhere to 'test the spirits' and 'by their fruits ye shall know them'. In otherwords if a discarnate acts human, advises good behaviour, there is no reason to assume it is a demon (not that many spiritualists believe in demons, perhaps occultists do) .... nor is St Paul's claim that 'satan can appear as an angel of light' sensible, his own claim was seeing a being of light on the road to damascus.

          Not all Christians are against Spiritualism. There are many different forms of Christianity. Many Christians go to mediums, and not all Christians believe in an extremist exclusivist form of Christianity.
          Thanks for pointing this out, the goal here is not to argue with Christians, many who are open to evidence beyond bibles, only challenge Christian conspiracy theorists who keep mentioning spiritualism as if it has something to do with a satanic conspiracy to take over the world. Spiritualists do not believe a satan exists, even if a Christian were to argue spiitualists were deceived, well that is not a conspiracy by spiritualists, it would be satanists faking being spiritualists.

          But where is the evidence? I am challenging thousands of internet people who believe in such a conspiracy to join this forum and argue your case
          .
          Last edited by Open Mind; May 21st, 2014, 01:47 PM.

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          • #6
            Here is first video example by Dr Stanley Monteith ... ... it starts fairly sensibly, it is interesting speculation but then goes off on a satanic conspiracy theory ....everyone (including spiritualists, society for psychical research etc. ) are tarnished as secret satanists ... no decent evidence whatsoever I can find to support that, if anyone wishes to argue that, post it here ... .

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sbfl3iyA6bA
            Last edited by Open Mind; May 21st, 2014, 02:00 PM.

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            • #7
              There are actually better examplesthan above but I am short of time to post these at present. One I will post later, it is rather intriguing link for either here or another thread..

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