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Welcome to Skeptiko Haven.

The simple rules here:
  1. We don’t discuss general materialist explanations for ‘psi’ and related phenomena. Anyone wanting to suggest materialism as the explanation for paranormal or spiritual phenomena is directed to the Skeptiko Forum.
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The Ouija Principle

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  • #31
    Originally posted by William View Post
    I have randomly taken 36 symbols from an image of my forth device and put these together. The message from that is included. This took me quite some time because I haven’t used this method for a long time and had to look up a lot of the meanings to those symbols. The ones with a > next to them are those that I still know now when I see them.
    Thanks!

    Comment


    • #32
      Using the Computer method, this morning I unfolded this message:

      4:49am

      Message
      Intimate On All Levels
      Different ways of supporting the same objective.
      Highly Commended
      Concern
      The Old Soul
      Of Your Thoughts
      Exactly!
      The Law
      QueenBee Knows
      Hologram Experience
      7 Staves


      When the 7 of Wands appears, you are likely to find that in any sort of competitive situation, that you come out on top. Things should be going very well, you should be feeling good, and projects should be moving right along. You may still have regular moments of self-doubt, unfortunately, but now is time to feel the fear, and do it anyway.

      General: Don't hesitate to make where you stand clear to people. Your thinking is clear, and you are likely to help someone out by spelling things out for them. This card can indicate that a change is coming - a positive change - in your personal or business life. This card also points toward being independent and thinking for yourself.

      Usually this card carries the meaning of striving to maintain or fighting over one's position, making a strong effort to keep something which is important. Note the superior position of the character. He takes up or maintains an equivocal position with regard to a number of issues or pressures in order to overcome them.

      • Coping and Resistance
      • Courage
      • Long-term successes
      • Perseverance
      • Strength

      Be-Live
      Situations
      Change
      Freedom
      To Be Sure
      Warm Presence
      Available
      Expression of Astonishment
      WingMakers Medium
      Carrier Identity
      Without - Within
      Not a Problem!


      5:01am

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Sandy B
        That's very beautiful.
        Thanks for saying so Sandy. It is functional too - interactive art.

        Comment


        • #34
          Interesting accounts, thanks for sharing William.

          It might be good for us to start a thread on Greys outside of the Haven for those wanting to debate the veracity of these beings.

          For my part I remain agnostic as to these higher/deeper realities but I do think it's interesting a friend was telling me about Crowley's Lam just recently:

          Aleister Crowley's Lam & the Little Grey Men

          "The first picture is a drawing made by occultist Alistair Crowley of an entity he had invoked repeatedly in 1918 and called "Lam." The second picture is a composite drawing by Ann Direnger (Contact of the 5th Kind - Imbrogno) of an "alien" type reported throughout 1980’s in the Hudson Valley."
          Last edited by Sciborg2; August 10th, 2013, 05:11 PM.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Sciborg2 View Post
            Interesting accounts, thanks for sharing William.
            Thanks for saying so Sciborg – glad you found them interesting.

            Originally posted by Sciborg2 View Post
            It might be good for us to start a thread on Greys outside of the Haven for those wanting to debate the veracity of these beings.
            Perhaps. I am not overly interested in debating whether they are real or imagined or what their agenda may or may not be.
            I have no direct opinion on those things in relation to my own experiences I only have speculation, which I am happy to share.

            Originally posted by Sciborg2 View Post

            For my part I remain agnostic as to these higher/deeper realities but I do think it's interesting a friend was telling me about Crowley's Lam just recently:

            Aleister Crowley's Lam & the Little Grey Men

            "The first picture is a drawing made by occultist Alistair Crowley of an entity he had invoked repeatedly in 1918 and called "Lam." The second picture is a composite drawing by Ann Direnger (Contact of the 5th Kind - Imbrogno) of an "alien" type reported throughout 1980’s in the Hudson Valley."
            Yes I have seen those pics of Crowleys. I think Anonymous gave the links in one of his/her posts in this thread.

            The being I saw did not look much like these. The eyes were the most compelling feature as they were large (but not as large as the “greys’ are normally depicted ) – more human in shape but larger than human eyes – deep black and soul penetrating.

            Skin grey in hue and exceedingly wrinkly – so much that this (but not this alone) gave me the impression that this being was ancient. Body short – about four foot high and maybe even less, because it was levitating and from my vantage point I could not see its feet. Fingers very long compared with human fingers.
            Hairless.

            The being exuded an unmistakable authority of presence, presence of authority.

            Comment


            • #36
              201013 10:28a
              Teacher: Getting Over It = Getting On With It
              The Gaia Hypothesis
              Gaia hypothesis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
              William’s Evolution Doc


              The doc itself speaks of evolution as a process which involves a god concept which is itself evolving.
              The basic thought here is that the universe is all that there is and that ‘god’ evolved from the process.
              The big bang – while this evidently shows a beginning might not be a beginning, but even if it is, may have spontaneously happened, but whatever, the advent of consciousness is the key thing. Evolution as a process developed consciousness and consciousness became the thing which recognizes not only itself but everything else.


              Teacher: The Big Cheese

              Essentially yes. Consciousness became the ‘god’.

              Teacher: Transparent

              In relation to consciousness, invisible except through form and then visible in different but connected ways. See through.

              Also, the words Trans (across/beyond; through; change/conversion) and parent (mother/father/origin of something/earlier form)


              Teacher: Extreme Reason... “ Space Doesn't End?”

              In terms of consciousness evolving within and endless universe – specific to something which has no beginning...hmmmm...the question – “does something which has no beginning also by that fact, have no end?”

              I will have to think about that. In relation to consciousness forming from the process and being god, space itself might be an infinite thing but that which occupies the space – the physical universe – could be finite.

              If consciousness itself is not finite it could continue to exist after the stuff of the universe ceased to be physical.
              Therefore space would be the universe and the ‘physical universe’ is all the physical stuff which is within the universe...

              What that concept would suggest is that consciousness would be the sum total of every individual conscious experience in the entire universe = god...if consciousness is the only thing in the universe which is a constant evolving non decaying thing independent of all things physical but able to interact with all things physical...that is a lot of data.

              But what holds that data together? Does it hold itself together?


              Teacher: Invite The Bee To Land

              So you remind me of an event where I put my finger out and invited a bee to land on it and it did.
              Consciousness in human form and consciousness in bee form interacting.
              How does this fit...lets see now...Consciousness within an individual form is focused within that form and in some ways is that form, or easily understands itself within the experience to being that form.
              However it is not really. It is just an experience of being within form.
              The forms have much to do with the process but not everything. Outside the forms consciousness also exist as formless – see through – and is able to bridge that form to form connection or more specifically, the two different conscious experiences.

              Comment


              • #37
                221013 1:44p

                Teacher: Original Shift Focus
                Translate
                Why?


                Is the ‘Original’ that consciousness which first came from the void, as per Tom Campbell’s big theory of everything?

                Teacher: Lift your gaze from the fire

                Okay - yes of course. The original is that which created the void, so why? What prompts that which has no beginning to create a mechanism which can give it the experience of a beginning?

                Perhaps because it never had a beginning and it was curious to experience a beginning.


                Teacher: Face Book
                Source Intelligence and Lyricus facilitate the process throughout the Grand Universe


                Question 17 -- Who was Jesus Christ in relation to the WingMakers?
                For those of you who will read these words, and are steeped in Christianity, forgive the manner of my response. I am not a man who communicates delicately when speaking my truth.
                Jesus incarnated not for the purpose of begetting a religion. He simply expressed his vision of the spiritual dimensions, making First Source accessible and singular. His fellow humans were so eager for the fulfillment of prophecy that they imposed upon him the mantle of Messiah, which he hesitantly agreed to shoulder.
                Jesus presently serves a leadership role in the teaching organization of which I spoke of earlier, which is made up of authentic spiritual leaders of earth. He is very much aware of both the WingMakers and Lyricus. An interesting footnote: While the religious organizations compete for human membership, those teachers who are responsible for the religions' origin operate in collaboration and cooperation beneath the same, bold banner: human evolution. Those teachers who have translated from the physical to the interdimensional realms remain powerful teachers of humanity. They shift their focus from individualistic missions to collaborative missions, and in this spirit of collaboration, become increasingly powerful as change agents for the human condition. Jesus, in particular, operates as a managing director of the teaching organization, and in this role, interfaces with Lyricus on planning and analysis of the Grand Portal.
                There is a common understanding among the teaching core that the confluence of science, art, and religion is inevitable, and it will culminate in the scientific discovery of the human soul, and more specifically, how the human soul is designed. Much like the physical body has a human genome, the spiritual body, or Wholeness Navigator, has a spiritual genome. And this genome is far more important to understand than the human because it is the causal element, while the human genome is the receptor.
                There are six components to this effort that are coordinated:
                1. Lyricus designs, transposes, and installs galactic Tributary Zones to a planetary system
                2. Earth teachers (non-physical) prepare the species for acceptance of the Grand Portal
                3. Earth teachers (physical) discover the way to the Grand Portal via the Tributary Zones
                4. Earth teachers (physical) disseminate and preserve the knowledge of the Grand Portal
                5. Earth teachers (physical and non-physical) unite humanity to the Sovereign Integral Network
                6. Source Intelligence and Lyricus facilitate the process throughout the Grand Universe
                Jesus' role is of high importance in stage two, and in approximately eighty years, in stage five. He essentially leads this process with the collaborative assistance of the entire teaching organization of ascended (non-physical) teachers.
                WingMakers Creator Q & A: Session 2

                Okay so – leaving aside the Jesus aspect the 6 components to this effort has to do with assisting human beings from the prison system we are currently engaged within.
                That at least is how I read it.
                In relation to where this topic started...and has evolved, ‘The Original’ moved into the void to experience a beginning, became the original consciousness which had a beginning and learned all on its own accord ‘what it was’ as well as what it was capable of.
                In doing so, it was aware of the void but (perhaps) had no way of penetrating it. Its focus regarding the void was that this was where it originated from. It evolved from the void.

                But it did have capabilities which it learns of by degree. The results were that it created universes which branched off from itself in fractal-like fashion.

                There is no real point in wondering ‘why’ because what else would it do?
                Maybe the ‘why’ has more to do with finding reason for its own existence, and the ‘how’ has to do with creating universes as situations in order to explore the ‘why’?

                ‘The Grand Universe’ is the sum total of every universe in existence created by this ‘new born’ god.


                Teacher: I Know

                Comment


                • #38
                  Hello William,

                  I am glad that you made some recent postings on this thread, which had the effect of bumping it to the top. Many things kept me from the forum this summer, which is not necessarily a bad thing sometimes.

                  Let me start by saying that this thread is likely the most interesting thing I have read on mind-energy in some time.

                  I have a lot of thoughts and questions and it is rather late here, so I may just ramble a while and see where it gets me.

                  I think that we receive frequent communication from the non-physical. Like yourself, I think it is not entirely correct to say that the communication comes from other. I'm not convinced that there is anything that at the deepest level can be defined as other. I hope I am not putting words into your mouth in that regard. For many folks, I think this communication happens with the greatest regularity and impact during the dream state. What is interesting about your circumstance is that you made a conscious decision to provide another more explicit avenue of communication to the non-physical. Many folks on the forum have spoken about their experiences and growth in this regard using mental mediumship.

                  I have some limited experience with the Ouija board several decades ago during college. This was a period of spiritual turmoil for me that combined interests in the occult and psychedelics. My partner was my roommate at the time and the end result was opening some doors that exposed the mystery. We weren't ready. During my first OBE exit ever during that period I met the watcher at the gate and he performed his function. We put the occult away. I don't think we labelled it as evil. We just recognized that at that time in our development perhaps a peek through the door was enough.

                  So I appreciate your attitude toward your communication board, which is clearly one that conveys great respect. I'm wondering if you can share some of your ideas about evil. Do you think that there is a force that exists that can be defined as evil. I don't know if you have by chance read the series of five "space fiction" novels by Doris Lessing called Canopus in Argos but in these novels she talks of a power called shammat that has the effect of degrading humans and drives them to move away from the qualities that would provide a universal harmony. I'm simplifying, but I'm very curious if you have gleaned any insights about the nature of what we often label as evil. It is hard to look at the state of this Earth today and not spend a considerable amount of thought on what force is driving humanity so far from anything remotely resembling a kind and natural way of being. Have you read any of the writings of Dan Mitchell? Are you a person who feels as if the universe is engaged in an enormous struggle between good and evil?

                  I'm fascinated that as your boards evolved that they moved away from language and into the symbolic. It is clear that those who cling to language and reason alone will never be able to comprehend the true nature of the non-physical. Can you explain more about how you chose the symbols on the later boards. Can you post a picture of your latest communication device? Can you share the number of hours you currently spend using the device? Do you meditate outside of the time that you use the device? Has meditation played a part in your life?

                  These last months I've spent a considerable amount of time consuming information surrounding UFOs, aliens, abductions, etc. I think that you made a comment that most people encounter these beings in relation to the hypnogogic state. That may be true for most encounters, but some encounters involved multiple participants who may, for example, all be traveling together in one vehicle. These clearly are not related to hypnogogia, but are likely more related to the ability of some non-physical groups to manipulate an imaginal zone that may be an intermediary zone between the physical and the non-physical. Have you given this any thought?

                  One question that was lost to me above concerns the eagerness that non-physical entities seem to have in relation to communicating with the physical. It seems that in accounts of mental mediums and in accounts of people who have positive relationships with communication boards such as yours that non-physical entities are very interested in contact. Do you think that the fact that you provided both interest and a physical device for communication led to your success? Do you have the idea that those in the non-physical realm desire a greater level of communication with the physical? I think you mention feeling as if your initial urge to build the first board was probably some kind of non-physical communication. Are you the kind of person who feels that they have something they "are supposed to do" here in the physical?

                  Have you had any experiences with owls? I see that you include one on your board.

                  Are you a strong dreamer? I would assume that you would pay at least some attention to your dreams and would have some respect toward their content. Is that true?

                  Well. I guess I have peppered you with enough questions for now. I can't express deeply enough the sense I had as I read this thread that I had missed it earlier for a reason and that now was the time for me to see it and to begin this line of communication about what you have done.

                  I may have missed your explanation, but can you explain in more depth the last two posts and how you use your computer to do this communication. I have had the exact thought that you posted about the internet in essence providing a kind of immense divination/communication device.

                  Anyway. Thanks!

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Hello William,

                    I am glad that you made some recent postings on this thread, which had the effect of bumping it to the top. Many things kept me from the forum this summer, which is not necessarily a bad thing sometimes.

                    Let me start by saying that this thread is likely the most interesting thing I have read on mind-energy in some time.

                    I have a lot of thoughts and questions and it is rather late here, so I may just ramble a while and see where it gets me.

                    Hi Blavatsky
                    Okay then. Thank you for saying so.
                    I read this post last night and decided to sleep on it. There are some good observations and questions, and I thank you for these.


                    I think that we receive frequent communication from the non-physical. Like yourself, I think it is not entirely correct to say that the communication comes from other. I'm not convinced that there is anything that at the deepest level can be defined as other. I hope I am not putting words into your mouth in that regard.

                    No you are seeing it as I do. Consciousness is one thing. However when it is placed into separate things, such as forms and universes it can and does act as if it were many things.
                    I would say that from the perspective of any prior universe, it would be more likely consciousness there would be clearer as to seeing ‘us’ as part of ‘them’ but there are also other things which separate us from each other. Perhaps it is the way we use our conscious selves. How we self identify. How we react to/with ‘others’.


                    Sweet Vibrations Astral Pulse

                    For many folks, I think this communication happens with the greatest regularity and impact during the dream state. What is interesting about your circumstance is that you made a conscious decision to provide another more explicit avenue of communication to the non-physical. Many folks on the forum have spoken about their experiences and growth in this regard using mental mediumship.

                    Yes – we cannot underestimate the impact of dreams in our daily life experience.
                    I consider dreams to be legitimate and part of the whole experience package.


                    Trust The Gardeners



                    I have some limited experience with the Ouija board several decades ago during college. This was a period of spiritual turmoil for me that combined interests in the occult and psychedelics. My partner was my roommate at the time and the end result was opening some doors that exposed the mystery. We weren't ready. During my first OBE exit ever during that period I met the watcher at the gate and he performed his function. We put the occult away. I don't think we labelled it as evil. We just recognized that at that time in our development perhaps a peek through the door was enough.

                    Perhaps a peek is all we can endure. Perhaps it is all we need.

                    10Q
                    Thanks For The Heads Up



                    So I appreciate your attitude toward your communication board, which is clearly one that conveys great respect.

                    I appreciate you recognizing and acknowledging this.



                    I'm wondering if you can share some of your ideas about evil. Do you think that there is a force that exists that can be defined as evil. I don't know if you have by chance read the series of five "space fiction" novels by Doris Lessing called Canopus in Argos but in these novels she talks of a power called shammat that has the effect of degrading humans and drives them to move away from the qualities that would provide a universal harmony. I'm simplifying, but I'm very curious if you have gleaned any insights about the nature of what we often label as evil. It is hard to look at the state of this Earth today and not spend a considerable amount of thought on what force is driving humanity so far from anything remotely resembling a kind and natural way of being. Have you read any of the writings of Dan Mitchell? Are you a person who feels as if the universe is engaged in an enormous struggle between good and evil?

                    As I am confident you can appreciate, the question of evil is complex.
                    Let me start by saying that I consider such ideas as an evil force manipulating the collective human consciousness to be something of a cop out if allowed to influence individuals to do nothing.
                    In this I am not saying it isn’t what is happening, but that if something like this is happening then it needs to be investigated.

                    The concept needs to be questioned deeply.

                    Thousands of years of human beliefs and behaviours have shaped collective reasoning, but no to a point where these collectives necessarily agree on ‘what is evil'.

                    From my own subjective perspective I once believed there was evil. I realise now that this has more to do along the lines of ‘one persons junk is another persons treasure’ in the sense that it seems ‘what is evil’ is dependant upon the individual.

                    I don’t think that there is something evil which has somehow been able to drive humans away from some more natural propensity to live and act in support of universal harmony.

                    I think most humans want this, at least for themselves and their familiars. I don’t think humans are necessarily too stupid not to realise the benefits of creating and maintaining a working model of how this can be achieved.

                    I think there is a concerted intelligent agenda to keep humans tied to the prevailing systems which have dominated human existence for such a long time, but do I think this is evil? It is arrogant, short-sighted, ignorant and lacking insight.

                    In relation to Ouija and the most popular opinion about it use, that it opens the gateways to evil entities all too willing too misdirect a human from the truth – I don’t see any other human related medium as not being equally able to afford such opportunity to those that way inclined.

                    I relation to the astral – and to the great variety of stories which people experience there and share about here, it seems too that entities do exist who are involved in extremely unsavoury participation obviously working against unity and wholeness.

                    Are these evil?

                    I do not think the universe is involved in some enormous struggle of good and evil. I think human beings are, and that the real struggle is within the individual.


                    I Am Sharing Your Love Without Comparison
                    Try Different Methods
                    2B Merging with the Data Afterwards



                    I'm fascinated that as your boards evolved that they moved away from language and into the symbolic. It is clear that those who cling to language and reason alone will never be able to comprehend the true nature of the non-physical.

                    Reason is extremely important to me. Language can be used as a form of limitation. I will assume you have been in situations where academic atheists and sceptics use the language of academia as a way of remaining aloof and a tool for not having to ‘get on the same page’ with someone else they consider is less intelligent than they are.

                    The use of symbols had much to do with retraining my mind. Basic everyday English is limiting in its ability to keep the individual from thinking deeply and exploring out of the box conceptualisations.

                    What is ‘the true nature’ of the non physical? Certainly its environment compels those who experience it to speak of it in metaphor because there is no language readily able to convey to the physical, the vast complex worlds of the non physical.

                    However, my focus has to do with what data can be accessed from the non physical which may be helpful to the physical.


                    Plus Eggs In Nests Confident


                    Can you explain more about how you chose the symbols on the later boards.

                    There are Rune symbols, Tarot symbols, Astrology symbols, and symbols I have created myself. Symbols are much the same as words and still require interpreting. Where they perhaps have the greatest use is that one symbol can help convey a sense of feeling which single words cannot do.

                    Light and Dark Provide
                    Any Other Way Appreciating Masks The Deeper Self



                    Can you post a picture of your latest communication device?

                    I have not made one for many years. The method I use is a nice art form in itself and I have created pieces which are not specifically for the use of communication but could be used for that purpose, as indeed any artwork can be.


                    Wonderful!
                    Only Galaxy Re-channel.



                    Can you share the number of hours you currently spend using the device?

                    I have covered this in earlier posts. Initially it was many hours, over many months, not including ‘sulk’ time.
                    Nowadays, I spend very little time at all with the process physically. I spend no time with the actual devices. All such communication is now done via computer.


                    I Know William Do you wish to comment?


                    Do you meditate outside of the time that you use the device?

                    I have always considered meditation to be thinking deep and meaningful. I realise that this is not what most refer to when they speak of meditating – in fact they may even think of it in the opposite way.

                    Communication Do Something About It
                    Action Get The Picture
                    Wait For The Navigator to respond...




                    Has meditation played a part in your life?

                    No. I have tried it on occasion but if it is for the purpose of ‘connecting with higher self etc.’ I am already doing this in a perpetual manner. If I thought there was any benefit to be had in adopting the practice I would give it more attention.

                    Aligning With WingMakers Learn Well Myths and Legends Mission Art
                    Love Unconditionally


                    These last months I've spent a considerable amount of time consuming information surrounding UFOs, aliens, abductions, etc. I think that you made a comment that most people encounter these beings in relation to the hypnogogic state. That may be true for most encounters, but some encounters involved multiple participants who may, for example, all be traveling together in one vehicle. These clearly are not related to hypnogogia, but are likely more related to the ability of some non-physical groups to manipulate an imaginal zone that may be an intermediary zone between the physical and the non-physical. Have you given this any thought?

                    What you are describing is related to the hypnogogia in that it is the merging of two distinct ‘zones’ – weather it happens in the more normal setting of bed and rest and sleep, it is obviously not absolutely limited to that arrangement.

                    I have listened to Tom Campbell give a reasonable explanation as to ‘alien encounters. I will try and source the video where he does this.

                    Basically he says that events can be programmed any which way.


                    WindBlown What Is Friendship?
                    Get Comfortable
                    Ooky Spooky AUM http://www.mbtevents.com/uploads/AUM...g_TOE_Wiki.pdf


                    One question that was lost to me above concerns the eagerness that non-physical entities seem to have in relation to communicating with the physical. It seems that in accounts of mental mediums and in accounts of people who have positive relationships with communication boards such as yours that non-physical entities are very interested in contact. Do you think that the fact that you provided both interest and a physical device for communication led to your success?

                    Yes, without a doubt. I would be silly not too. I created it for that specific purpose, and since it delivered that result...

                    Trust
                    Jump To Conclusions
                    On The Other Hand… Love Your Life It Is A Gradual Process Into Purposefulness



                    Do you have the idea that those in the non-physical realm desire a greater level of communication with the physical?

                    Yes. There are certain things needing to be put right or corrected. Belief systems generated in the physical are extremely powerful and affect the non physical abundantly.

                    Incredible Variants Be Aware
                    The Vast UICDevice




                    I think you mention feeling as if your initial urge to build the first board was probably some kind of non-physical communication. Are you the kind of person who feels that they have something they "are supposed to do" here in the physical?

                    Yes. Although I was more that person than I am now. Now I understand that is has always been choice but that the things I were doing or told I should be doing did not always feel that great to do.
                    The ‘supposed to be’ doing probable received magnification during my ‘born again Christian stage’ but guilt had more to do with my decisions and I was to discover that while guilt has its uses, it can be abused by manipulative individuals.
                    The thing about guilt is that it is a sign that you may want to repent and change the way you do things. It is best not to ignore it. It is also best not to be overly motivated and/or navigated by it.
                    Deal with it move on in grace.


                    Gateway Rulers

                    Have you had any experiences with owls? I see that you include one on your board.

                    Yes. I had quite a profound experience. One of those ‘pivotal moments’ one never forgets.

                    Learning To Fly
                    The Never Ending Story



                    Are you a strong dreamer? I would assume that you would pay at least some attention to your dreams and would have some respect toward their content. Is that true?

                    Yes to both questions.

                    Core Beingness Dusty
                    “I come from a dark place…it is so dark I can’t even remember it…”
                    Incorporate Makes Candles Look Gathered



                    Well. I guess I have peppered you with enough questions for now. I can't express deeply enough the sense I had as I read this thread that I had missed it earlier for a reason and that now was the time for me to see it and to begin this line of communication about what you have done.

                    I hope that we can keep this discussion happening. I am more than happy to answer any questions you have to ask.

                    See the Signs
                    Inter-Dependent


                    I may have missed your explanation, but can you explain in more depth the last two posts and how you use your computer to do this communication. I have had the exact thought that you posted about the internet in essence providing a kind of immense divination/communication device.

                    Anyway. Thanks!


                    My last two posts are simply a conversation I am having with my “teacher” and then shared here. If you can be specific as to what you want me to explain in more depth re these that would be good.

                    As to how I use the computer...in short – I use to word documents with identical lists of words/sentences, links, key words which lead me to other documents etc...although both list are in different orders.

                    I open both lists and use them together moving from one to the other. I use the pg up and pg dn keys as well as up and down arrow keys to randomly select list entries. I do not look at the screen.

                    Where the cursor stops, I select the list entry and C&P it to my ‘communications doc’ and of course depending on the selection or after a group of selections if I feel to, I will comment according to how those grouped selections affected me.

                    That is the real short version. I am fairly consistent at adding new things to the lists. Each one at present is 35 pages long and growing.

                    Occasionally I shuffle the lists and even have a list entry saying “Shuffle List”.

                    Anyway, I hope that explains it enough for you.

                    Once again thanks for you supportive interest blavatsky.

                    Cheers.


                    When Done Say “Done”

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      owls as a 'pivotal moment' (I'm interested!)

                      You wrote:

                      Have you had any experiences with owls? I see that you include one on your board.

                      Yes. I had quite a profound experience. One of those ‘pivotal moments’ one never forgets.
                      ______________________

                      I am doing research on owls and how they tie into odd or spiritually powerful experiences. I am doing this because I have had my own very prescient owl sightings.

                      My question for you: Can you share your 'pivotal moment' owl experience? I am most interested to hear about this. i take my research very seriously.

                      Sincerely,
                      Mike Clelland

                      my direct contact: mikeclelland (the "at" symbol) me.com

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Mike Clelland View Post

                        I am doing research on owls and how they tie into odd or spiritually powerful experiences. I am doing this because I have had my own very prescient owl sightings.

                        My question for you: Can you share your 'pivotal moment' owl experience? I am most interested to hear about this. i take my research very seriously.

                        Sincerely,
                        Mike Clelland

                        my direct contact: mikeclelland (the "at" symbol) me.com
                        I am listening right now to your radio interview Mike.

                        I will think about sharing with you my experience regarding the Owl. I am not sure at this time whether I will do so privately or within this thread.

                        One thing I will say is that my experience was not directly related to UFO or abduction/aliens.

                        While I have had experience with an 'Alien' and have seen 'unexplained lights in the sky' neither were directly connected with Owls, and certainly my experience with the 'Alien' is no doubt the most pivotal experience in my life to date...

                        ...as I listen to the radio show, I am thinking that this method of communication I have developed, would be very useful to you in your research.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Hello again William,

                          I'm glad that you took time to respond to my questions. I've been mulling over them for a bit before responding.

                          First I'd like to say that I'm glad Mike Clelland was able to get in touch with you. I would recommend his podcasts to anyone interested in the greater mystery. I hope that you guys are able to share some information. My feeling about Mike is that he is a genuine good character who is very careful about his approach to information. In that I mean that he seems like a caring and close listener.

                          For anyone who is interested, Mike's podcasts are here:

                          hidden experience: audio podcasts

                          *****

                          I guess I will just jump in with what is top on my mind. I do have an initial question.

                          Why is it in the history of ouija and other communication type boards that more that one person in the physical realm seems to be required to operate the device? You mention eventually being able to use a board with a feather to communicate on your own. But why do the boards typically seem to require 2 or more people? Can you envision communication devices that would work solo? I know you currently use your computer. Are there other setups that you could imagine might work for one person? Off hand I can think of automatic writing as one possibility. Channelling and mental mediumship I guess could be listed. But I am most particularly interested in board type devices.

                          On evil. I'm not a great or deep thinker. But I can accept the idea that at the base of reality there is a unity and that the most likely candidate for this unity is what we refer to as consciousness, or at least some relation to consciousness. I guess the next question is whether a symbol like the yin and yang represents a unity? When I say that I believe that reason and language can't lead to an experience of the divine, it is related to this idea. There must be some way to reconcile the great opposites and in my mind this reconciliation surpasses the ability of reason and language. I think we see a hint of this in post-mortem communications that express the sentiment that certain things only make sense from that side of the veil and that these things apparently can't be communicated to those of us existing in the flesh in any meaningful way.

                          Let me start by saying that I consider such ideas as an evil force manipulating the collective human consciousness to be something of a cop out if allowed to influence individuals to do nothing.
                          I think this makes sense if we don't allow for free will. If we accept that in this Earth environment we are seemingly granted the free will to make our own choices, then an evil force becomes a possibility. Maybe this isn't the place for this idea, but I am puzzled by the idea that so many people accept the concept of the bodhisattva, while apparently not allowing for its opposite--that there might be entities that consciously incarnate into the Earthly realm for the express purpose of using their power that they have consolidated over the course of many lifetimes to subjugate others to their will. The idea that power can accumulate only in the good is an idea that is quite clearly disproved on this Earth. I agree that it is an important and complex subject and one that deserves much thought.

                          It is also interesting that among community of OBE practitioners there should be such a disparity of opinion regarding the existence of evil.

                          Personally I buy into the idea that for my soul at least, I have the power and the will to reject evil as I understand it. Of course as you say evil can be very subjective and for some even owning a product made by Apple, or consuming poultry from the supermarket could be considered in some way evil. For some folks simply participating in this culture of sensational materialism without condemnation is to be cloaked in darkness and ignorance. I guess here is where reason and compassion can join together to shine some light on a path that is likely best, at least while we are existing physically on the Earth.

                          I think there is a concerted intelligent agenda to keep humans tied to the prevailing systems which have dominated human existence for such a long time, but do I think this is evil? It is arrogant, short-sighted, ignorant and lacking insight.
                          Anyway. I'm rambling. On the whole I think humans, and indeed all creatures endowed with consciousness here in the physical basically want to do what is best for their familiars, as you say. But I also think that the global economic engines are guided by humans, and that at some level these engines are designed to consume a lot more than money. In fact they are at this point consuming life of all kind with abandon. Evolution of consciousness would seemingly include the idea that all life should be afforded respect. I just don't see that concept taking root on the Earth to a level significant enough to overtake the engines of consumption that have been set into motion. We shall see. It is not something that I am particularly worried about. I'm not entirely convinced that as an entity that I am necessarily native to the Earth given my relative isolation here and my continued dismay at the nature of life among humans. Frankly I am baffled that we choose to live as we do. In the long run, given the apparently unbounded size of reality, the loss of the Earth can not be a matter of any real consequence. Who knows. As you say we can label it as ignorance, greed, hatred or any of another hundred names. Just as we can add grace, compassion, love and others to the its opposite.

                          if there exists evil and its opposite then there should always be a path between the two. And as long as we afforded a choice, then we can choose where we wish to walk along that path.

                          From my own subjective perspective I once believed there was evil. I realise now that this has more to do along the lines of ‘one persons junk is another persons treasure’ in the sense that it seems ‘what is evil’ is dependant upon the individual.
                          This seems to me to be a kind of moral relativism. I have to think that certain actions, like the gang rape of a minor girl and the subsequent burning alive of her body is wrong. It could be that on the other side of the veil that I will see it another way, but right here, right now, that action touches evil.

                          In relation to Ouija and the most popular opinion about it use, that it opens the gateways to evil entities all too willing too misdirect a human from the truth – I don’t see any other human related medium as not being equally able to afford such opportunity to those that way inclined.

                          I relation to the astral – and to the great variety of stories which people experience there and share about here, it seems too that entities do exist who are involved in extremely unsavoury participation obviously working against unity and wholeness.

                          Are these evil?
                          I agree with you here. I tend to view people who engage in activities that involve non-physical reality as explorers of the unknown. As such, they must accept the risks and responsibilities that attend any exploration of the unknown. But I think it is best to use common sense and to consider the experiences of those who have travelled ahead on the trail. Maybe the superstition and fear surrounding such exploration keeps the numbers of travelers to a minimum. Not sure whether that is a good thing or a bad one. There are certainly growing numbers of people interested in the OBE and lucid dreaming. Although it seems that exploration in these territories can be as meaningful or meaningless as aligns with the expectations of the practitioner.

                          I've heard it said that if there were malevolent entities lining up to prey on innocent humans then our dream life would likely be a living hell. That doesn't seem to be the case. More than likely we create our own hellish world if we so choose.

                          I do not think the universe is involved in some enormous struggle of good and evil. I think human beings are, and that the real struggle is within the individual.
                          This is a very good point and probably closer to the truth than all my drivel above.

                          However, my focus has to do with what data can be accessed from the non physical which may be helpful to the physical.
                          That is interesting. I always looked for data from the non-physical that would be helpful explicitly for the non-physical.


                          What you are describing is related to the hypnogogia in that it is the merging of two distinct ‘zones’ – weather it happens in the more normal setting of bed and rest and sleep, it is obviously not absolutely limited to that arrangement.

                          I have listened to Tom Campbell give a reasonable explanation as to ‘alien encounters. I will try and source the video where he does this.

                          Basically he says that events can be programmed any which way.
                          I get this.

                          Yes. There are certain things needing to be put right or corrected. Belief systems generated in the physical are extremely powerful and affect the non physical abundantly.
                          This was one of the most interesting parts of your reply. Can you give some examples how out belief systems in the physical have an effect on the non-physical. I do understand that entities may gather by a kind of affinity in the non-physical based on belief systems. Is this what you are referring to? Is there more to it that you understand? Are you saying that this has an adverse influence in the non-physical?

                          In regard to your current method of communication. It seems to me that the responses you obtain from the computer and your teacher are more in line with divination--as one might expect from something like the i-ching. How does this differ from communication that might occur with a traditional ouija board where presumedly one can obtain a very specific answer to a specific question. I imagine that I am suffering here from a lack of information on what it is you are doing exactly. Perhaps communication with the traditional board is more superficial and literal, while the machine/teacher interface is in some way more related to meaning that is not necessarily tied so neatly to language? Are there some strengths to each system that may be lost by relying on one or the other?

                          Thanks for your kind attention to my questions. I am deeply interested in your ideas and your process.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by blavatsky View Post
                            I guess I will just jump in with what is top on my mind. I do have an initial question.

                            Why is it in the history of ouija and other communication type boards that more that one person in the physical realm seems to be required to operate the device? You mention eventually being able to use a board with a feather to communicate on your own. But why do the boards typically seem to require 2 or more people? Can you envision communication devices that would work solo? I know you currently use your computer. Are there other setups that you could imagine might work for one person? Off hand I can think of automatic writing as one possibility. Channelling and mental mediumship I guess could be listed. But I am most particularly interested in board type devices.
                            Ouija can be used with just one person and I would recommend this method as the best way to use one.
                            I would suppose that it is just assumed that more than one person has to use it to get it to activate.
                            Since it is marketed as a toy/game, this has something to do with the notion.

                            Where I have taken the Ouija principle is into the heart of things. It is a device and like all such devices can be used scientifically.



                            Originally posted by blavatsky View Post
                            On evil. I'm not a great or deep thinker. But I can accept the idea that at the base of reality there is a unity and that the most likely candidate for this unity is what we refer to as consciousness, or at least some relation to consciousness. I guess the next question is whether a symbol like the yin and yang represents a unity? When I say that I believe that reason and language can't lead to an experience of the divine, it is related to this idea. There must be some way to reconcile the great opposites and in my mind this reconciliation surpasses the ability of reason and language.
                            To a degree you are correct but it is really about how ones thoughts are trained and what actions are manifested from this. Language doesn't have to limit or be used as a limiter but often it is.


                            Originally posted by blavatsky View Post
                            I think we see a hint of this in post-mortem communications that express the sentiment that certain things only make sense from that side of the veil and that these things apparently can't be communicated to those of us existing in the flesh in any meaningful way.
                            Meaningful enough for the purpose.



                            Originally posted by blavatsky View Post
                            I think this makes sense if we don't allow for free will. If we accept that in this Earth environment we are seemingly granted the free will to make our own choices, then an evil force becomes a possibility. Maybe this isn't the place for this idea, but I am puzzled by the idea that so many people accept the concept of the bodhisattva, while apparently not allowing for its opposite--that there might be entities that consciously incarnate into the Earthly realm for the express purpose of using their power that they have consolidated over the course of many lifetimes to subjugate others to their will. The idea that power can accumulate only in the good is an idea that is quite clearly disproved on this Earth. I agree that it is an important and complex subject and one that deserves much thought.
                            All these things at these levels display opposing interactions. Ignorance on both sides as to the greater reality which is not split into opposing forces.



                            Originally posted by blavatsky View Post
                            It is also interesting that among community of OBE practitioners there should be such a disparity of opinion regarding the existence of evil.
                            Again it depends on what level one is involved within.

                            Originally posted by blavatsky View Post
                            Personally I buy into the idea that for my soul at least, I have the power and the will to reject evil as I understand it. Of course as you say evil can be very subjective and for some even owning a product made by Apple, or consuming poultry from the supermarket could be considered in some way evil. For some folks simply participating in this culture of sensational materialism without condemnation is to be cloaked in darkness and ignorance. I guess here is where reason and compassion can join together to shine some light on a path that is likely best, at least while we are existing physically on the Earth.

                            ^This

                            Originally posted by blavatsky View Post
                            This seems to me to be a kind of moral relativism. I have to think that certain actions, like the gang rape of a minor girl and the subsequent burning alive of her body is wrong. It could be that on the other side of the veil that I will see it another way, but right here, right now, that action touches evil.
                            Most would. It is still an act of ignorance. We can call it whatever word we want. The action is most obviously reprehensible to unity and wholeness and so is generally seen as such.
                            Other actions which are also against unity and wholeness are not considered even to be evil but can cause as much grief and damage to others.
                            In that sense all is in the eye of the beholder, but there is something within us called Conscientiousness...some individuals seem not to have this thing.

                            Either they have learned to tune it out, or maybe they were never tuned in.

                            I am not one to belittle the tragedy suffered by others, such as your graphic example, but I cannot show empathy for one type of abuse while minimizing other abuses. I think this is part of the problem. We can for example denounce wife beating while hardly raising an eyebrow to verbal abuse of husbands.

                            There are laws which deal with physical abuse but there are none so much for verbal abuse.

                            Inevitably we must learn to follow our conscience rather than rely on laws and move away from the practice of abuse. Not to respond in kind.






                            Originally posted by blavatsky View Post
                            I agree with you here. I tend to view people who engage in activities that involve non-physical reality as explorers of the unknown. As such, they must accept the risks and responsibilities that attend any exploration of the unknown.



                            But I think it is best to use common sense and to consider the experiences of those who have travelled ahead on the trail. Maybe the superstition and fear surrounding such exploration keeps the numbers of travelers to a minimum.
                            We are individuals and will experience whatever we experience and react to that as we will. We are different. We will respond to similar situations differently.
                            Caution is wise. Listen to others but follow your heart. Not everyone who counsels 'this' or 'that' is necessarily being honest or has your best interest at heart.
                            Trust yourself. If you cannot and have to trust others, you do yourself a disservice and I for one would be less inclined to trusting someone who cannot trust themselves.

                            Originally posted by blavatsky View Post
                            Not sure whether that is a good thing or a bad one. There are certainly growing numbers of people interested in the OBE and lucid dreaming. Although it seems that exploration in these territories can be as meaningful or meaningless as aligns with the expectations of the practitioner.

                            I've heard it said that if there were malevolent entities lining up to prey on innocent humans then our dream life would likely be a living hell. That doesn't seem to be the case. More than likely we create our own hellish world if we so choose.
                            This seems on the whole to be the case. There are layers - some are self created experiences - instant manifestations. I have no experience personally with any of these level bar the 'back yard' altered state as Tom Campbell calls it.

                            I have read enough from other peoples experience to get a fairly good picture of what most likely is happening.


                            Originally posted by blavatsky View Post
                            That is interesting. I always looked for data from the non-physical that would be helpful explicitly for the non-physical.

                            Fair enough.


                            Originally posted by blavatsky View Post
                            This was one of the most interesting parts of your reply. Can you give some examples how out belief systems in the physical have an effect on the non-physical. I do understand that entities may gather by a kind of affinity in the non-physical based on belief systems. Is this what you are referring to? Is there more to it that you understand? Are you saying that this has an adverse influence in the non-physical?
                            It is quite complex.
                            In short, human imagination has an affect on the non physical, or rather a specific part of the non physical.
                            Everything humans have ever imagined have been literally created in this realm.

                            When someone dies they often go to this realm depending on their own belief systems but the realm is not 'real' - it is a product of human myth, flasity, romanticism, stories etc.
                            The realm is a veil on the greater reality to which we actually belong.

                            There are entities which have been created by humans and bestowed with great powers. They do no wish for their human creators to realize that they are actually not the creator of humans but have been created by humans. This deception has been ongoing since the dawn of human beings and imagination.

                            Some entities do fade away as humans stop believing in them. It is the greatest fear the entities have. That humans will stop believing in them and they will fade away.

                            Anything which helps keep the deception alive is considered to be okay.

                            Not everything which humans have imagined are deceptive or loathing of human beings.

                            You can imagine the vast extent of this realm.

                            Humans are responsible for their own individual and collective creations and I think it is not necessary to 'delete' these creations but re-configure them to better help us to help ourselves to help each other to help our creations.



                            The above is my own understanding of what might be happening. It is speculation based upon a lot of data collecting.

                            The aspect of 'good and evil' has no affect on the greater reality i mentioned. The creations of human imagination who stand to lose the most are those who are the most ferocious in their need to keep us from moving through into the greater reality and will use whatever deception necessary in order to keep things the way they are.



                            Originally posted by blavatsky View Post
                            In regard to your current method of communication. It seems to me that the responses you obtain from the computer and your teacher are more in line with divination--as one might expect from something like the i-ching. How does this differ from communication that might occur with a traditional ouija board where presumedly one can obtain a very specific answer to a specific question.
                            There is no difference in the method of Ouija - the principle is simple transferred to the computer and the answers are no more or less specific.

                            My method simply adds more 'blind test' type process. It removes the 'ooky spooky' associated with use of the Ouija boards, as well as the 'its coincidence' factor which is often used to explain why the messages are - for the most part - quite understandable.

                            Also the whole communications process is sped up using computer. How big would any board have to be in order to fit the 1713 line entries of data I currently have on my lists?


                            Originally posted by blavatsky View Post
                            I imagine that I am suffering here from a lack of information on what it is you are doing exactly. Perhaps communication with the traditional board is more superficial and literal, while the machine/teacher interface is in some way more related to meaning that is not necessarily tied so neatly to language? Are there some strengths to each system that may be lost by relying on one or the other?
                            The lists are able to be added to and can be shuffled for even more randomness in the mix.

                            I think I will have to explain and expand on what these list are and the different ways in which I use them.

                            Ultimately they are Ouija Principle at another level.

                            Originally posted by blavatsky View Post
                            Thanks for your kind attention to my questions. I am deeply interested in your ideas and your process.
                            You are welcome. Thanks reciprocated.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Ideomotor Effect and the Subconscious.


                              Hi

                              I decided to create this thread in relation to my experiences using Ideomotor – principally the ‘Ouija effect’ which involves the use of a flat surface with symbols on it and a pointing device which used together create opportunity for communication between the conscious self and the subconscious aspect of the individual.

                              The word ‘Ouija’ itself comes from a marketing strategy and is associated with the most common type of ‘message board’ and sold mainly as a toy.

                              My understanding of ideomotor is that it involves the unconscious hand movements of the individual(s), which – in relation to the message board and pointing device (which the hand(s) rest on) produce a form of communication which is attributed to either some external agency, (common belief is that the hand movements are controlled by ‘dead souls’, or ‘dark energy entities and spirits’) or (slightly less commonly,) that it is an internal agency, namely the ‘unconscious’ or ‘subconscious’ of the individual.

                              My own approach in initially using such device was on the assumption I was communicating with ‘the dead’ and through continued use over many months this understanding changed as I was lead to understand that I was communicating with an intelligent aspect of my self to which I had previously been totally ignorant about.

                              It was actually this other aspect of my self which ‘broke the news’ to me regarding this.

                              Importantly, opinions I have read up on regarding the ‘unconscious’ or ‘subconscious’ do not report these things to being conscious or intelligent. They are merely aspects of a person’s consciousness which are working internally and quietly in the background as part of the overall necessity of human function and ability.

                              Thanks
                              W

                              Comment

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