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People with virtually no brain

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  • People with virtually no brain

    I remember watching a documentary years ago regards the phenomena of CAT scans showing up of people with very little brain matter but who lived perfectly normal lives, including a maths student with an IQ of 116. Following all the kerfuffle surrounding brains and Dr Eben Alexander, I tried to find more information on this subject, just one link is Belligerati: People Who Have Virtually No Brains Are Living Among Us.

    Perhaps I've missed something somewhere, but as the brain issue is the basis of materialists contention that we are indeed biological robots, can anyone tell me if this phenomena has already been scientifically addressed?

  • #2
    No! Just no!

    Absolute urban legend.

    Think this way: if only a 100gr tumor within your brain is able to kill you, think twice before you think we can live without a brain.

    This bares no sense at all, and you even don't need to be versed in medicine to understand it, by means of logic alone.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Plato's Cavern View Post
      No! Just no!

      Absolute urban legend.

      Think this way: if only a 100gr tumor within your brain is able to kill you, think twice before you think we can live without a brain.

      This bares no sense at all, and you even don't need to be versed in medicine to understand it, by means of logic alone.
      Absolutely no urban legend!

      See the article "Is your brain really necessary" in Science Volume 210, December 12, 1980, and the follow up documentary film with the same title which shows two people with little brain (borne out by fMRI scans) but with high IQs. The boy had an IQ 126, and verbal IQ of 140.

      See also: Where Is Consciousness? I've Lost It!

      It is somewhat of a medical miracle alright, but it did happen and still happens.

      I already wrote about this extensively on this forum. Can't find it now, sorry.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by t4msync View Post
        I remember watching a documentary years ago regards the phenomena of CAT scans showing up of people with very little brain matter but who lived perfectly normal lives, including a maths student with an IQ of 116. Following all the kerfuffle surrounding brains and Dr Eben Alexander, I tried to find more information on this subject, just one link is Belligerati: People Who Have Virtually No Brains Are Living Among Us.

        Perhaps I've missed something somewhere, but as the brain issue is the basis of materialists contention that we are indeed biological robots, can anyone tell me if this phenomena has already been scientifically addressed?
        There have been already some different threads on this, i am sure you will find some if you use the search function of the forum.
        Type in "hydrocephalus" and you will be on your way.

        Comment


        • #5
          Their brain is not missing it is just compressed....

          Originally posted by anonymous View Post

          Where Is Consciousness? I've Lost It!

          It is perhaps significant that many of the instances in which gross enlargement of cerebral ventricles is compatible with normal life are cases where the condition develops slowly. Gross surgical lesions in rat brains are known to inflict severe functional disruption, but if the same damage is done bit by bit over a long period of time, the dysfunction can be minimal. Just as the rat brains appear to cope with a stepwise reduction of available hardware, so too do the human brains in some cases of hydrocephalus.
          ...
          A group of researchers based at the New York University Medical Center has assembled a picture of the histological changes associated with hydrocephalus through experimental induction of the condition in cats. The group also observed the changes in tissue structure following the implantation of a shunt, the experimental equivalent to the normal treatment of hydrocephalus in humans. Speaking for the group, Fred Epstein says the following: "Hydrocephalus is principally a disease of the white matter. As the ventricles enlarge the layers of fibres above them begin to be stretched and very quickly they are disrupted, with the axons and the myelin sheaths surrounding them breaking down. Even in severe and extended hydrocephalus, however, the nerve cells in the gray matter were remarkably spared, though eventually there began to be a loss here too." The sparing of the gray matter even in severe hydrocephalus could go some way to explaining the remarkable retention of many normal functions in severely affected individuals.

          Crucial to the approach to treatment of hydrocephalus is the brain's ability to recuperate following the release of fluid pressure when a shunt is implanted. One of the canons of neurobiology is that, once damaged, cells in the central nervous system are unable to repair themselves. Does Lorber's work dent this hallowed concept too? "When you implant a shunt in a young hydrocephalic child you often see complete restoration of overall brain structure, even in cases where initially there is no detectable mantle,"claims Lorber. "There must be true regeneration of brain substance in some sense, but I'm not necessarily saying that nerve cells regenerate,"he says cautiously; "I don't think anyone knows fully about that."

          What, then, is happening when a hydrocephalic brain rebounds from being a thin layer lining a fluid-filled cranium to become an apparently normal structure when released from hydrostatic pressure? According to Epstein and on the basis of his colleagues' observations on experimental cats, the term rebound aptly describes the reconstitution process, with stretched fibres shortening, thus diminishing the previously expanded ventricular space. Within a short time scar tissue forms, constructed from the glial cells that pack between the nerve cells. "The reconstitution of the mantle,"report Epstein and his colleagues, "does not result in the reformation of lost elements, but rather in the formation of aglial scar and possibly a return to function of the remaining elements."

          White matter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
          White matter, long thought to be passive tissue, actively affects how the brain learns and dysfunctions. Although gray matter (composed of neurons) does the brain's thinking and calculating, white matter (composed of myelin-coated axons) controls the signals that neurons share, coordinating how well brain regions work together.[2]

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by sparky View Post
            There have been already some different threads on this, i am sure you will find some if you use the search function of the forum.
            Type in "hydrocephalus" and you will be on your way.
            Wow! There're already an awful lot of links to read through, and read through them all I will. It'll take me a while, but meantime, this one caught my eye Lucid Before Death -- Evidence of Separate Mind from Alex, as my mother became lucid before passing of vascular dementia and apparently thanked all the care home staff for looking after her. But his post also covers those who've suffered hydrocephalus. Has anyone told Dr Eben about this (rhetorical question, I'm sure he already knows). And Dr Lober apparently passed disappointed that no one would research this further. The entire phenomena seems to have been quietly dropped. The most interesting thing as far as I'm concerned is, why? Skeptics can blather on about neurons firing off and halucinations, but these cases aren't anecdotal. They're scientifically proven, at least in the cases of hydrocephalus. An aside to which, Alex's post also cites Sam Parnia's rather silly, in my view, research into NDEs, the main component of which appears to be placing objects/photographs around the hospital room. Seriously, if one were experiencing all that NDErs have reported, scratching about for a pic would be the last thing on my mind I believe those that have, the famous 'shoe incident' for example, was merely serendipitous.

            Anyway, enough digression, I've a lot of reading to do And any thoughts on the 'quietly dropped' outright ignored aspect would be welcome. Thanks

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by t4msync View Post
              Wow! There're already an awful lot of links to read through, and read through them all I will. It'll take me a while, but meantime, this one caught my eye Lucid Before Death -- Evidence of Separate Mind from Alex, as my mother became lucid before passing of vascular dementia and apparently thanked all the care home staff for looking after her. But his post also covers those who've suffered hydrocephalus. Has anyone told Dr Eben about this (rhetorical question, I'm sure he already knows). And Dr Lober apparently passed disappointed that no one would research this further. The entire phenomena seems to have been quietly dropped. The most interesting thing as far as I'm concerned is, why? Skeptics can blather on about neurons firing off and halucinations, but these cases aren't anecdotal. They're scientifically proven, at least in the cases of hydrocephalus. An aside to which, Alex's post also cites Sam Parnia's rather silly, in my view, research into NDEs, the main component of which appears to be placing objects/photographs around the hospital room. Seriously, if one were experiencing all that NDErs have reported, scratching about for a pic would be the last thing on my mind I believe those that have, the famous 'shoe incident' for example, was merely serendipitous.

              Anyway, enough digression, I've a lot of reading to do And any thoughts on the 'quietly dropped' outright ignored aspect would be welcome. Thanks
              I'm not sure why you think research has been dropped. There is tons of research into the response of the brain to injury including the response to increased pressure (hydrocephalus) and the consequences in terms of function.

              Linda

              Comment


              • #8
                Pubmed shows 25494 hits with the search term: "hydrocephalus"

                Comment


                • #9
                  Any article that talks about "very little brain" or "virtually no cortex," but does not include a count of the neurons in the brain, is worthless.

                  ~~ Paul

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    This is ridiculous. In the course of my studies and practice, I've never heard about such a thing. Take it with logic: if you one could live and think without a brain, the principle of natural saving would not mind building up the most complex item that exists in the universe which is the brain.
                    I don't even want to dig into this subject. It's like saying one can fly by flapping their arms quickly.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Plato's Cavern View Post
                      This is ridiculous. In the course of my studies and practice, I've never heard about such a thing. Take it with logic: if you one could live and think without a brain, the principle of natural saving would not mind building up the most complex item that exists in the universe which is the brain.
                      I don't even want to dig into this subject. It's like saying one can fly by flapping their arms quickly.
                      It's not NO brain. Fluid builds up in the skull and compresses the brain. It's very well documented (see my post above- search for it on pubmed).

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Paul C. Anagnostopoulos View Post
                        Any article that talks about "very little brain" or "virtually no cortex," but does not include a count of the neurons in the brain, is worthless.

                        ~~ Paul
                        Then you should explain how in a living brain neurons are counted. Opening the skull and cut out a piece of the brain?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by fls View Post
                          I'm not sure why you think research has been dropped. There is tons of research into the response of the brain to injury including the response to increased pressure (hydrocephalus) and the consequences in terms of function.

                          Linda
                          Oh great! Could you post some links for me please, including conclusions of course? In the meantime, I chanced upon this site Humans Living Normal Lives With No Physical Brain - Is This Proof Of A Human Soul???, page 1 whilst Googling various tag words, and although it is in no way comparable in it's intellectual content as this one, I did find some of the answers as to why people do die from head trauma, even though it has been shown that some people have little brain matter to traumatize, intelligent and plausible given the average age range at which the site is targeted.

                          Look forward to the links and your thoughts on the comments. Thanks

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            t4nsync ... this is off topic ... but can I call your attention to another thread ... just in case you missed it

                            http://forum.mind-energy.net/skeptik...tml#post137035

                            Interesting thread by the way ....I might comment later.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Smithy View Post
                              Then you should explain how in a living brain neurons are counted. Opening the skull and cut out a piece of the brain?
                              Not my problem. Clearly, the fact that there is no effective way to do it does not imply that there are fewer neurons.

                              Compression does not equal reduction.

                              ~~ Paul

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