Has it ever...?

[NinjaKitty7]

Has it ever come to a point where you are just sick of the debates? Where you are either crazy or something is real, but either way, you have to start going forward without hesitating on the knifes edge of the "is it real" debate? Not that I think intellectual is worthless, or that self examination is pointless, far from. But if there is something to these experiences a lot of us have, is it really worth it to continue debating at risk of losing time to go forward? In other words, when do you just say, "alright, I want to see what's behind door #2"?

[anonymous]

Originally Posted by NinjaKitty7

Has it ever come to a point where you are just sick of the debates? Where you are either crazy or something is real, but either way, you have to start going forward without hesitating on the knifes edge of the "is it real" debate? Not that I think intellectual is worthless, or that self examination is pointless, far from. But if there is something to these experiences a lot of us have, is it really worth it to continue debating at risk of losing time to go forward? In other words, when do you just say, "alright, I want to see what's behind door #2"?

I don't debate much. I use the ignore list extensively.

http://forum.mind-energy.net/profile.php?do=ignorelist

We all incarnate on the earth to have experiences that we can't have as spirits. Skeptics incarnate to have skeptical experiences. The forum here is for discussing parapsychology so it's fair to post information and discuss it, but I don't think you should try to wreck a skeptic's life plan by converting him. He might have to reincarnate and be a skeptic again. That would be a really nasty thing to do to someone, and it might really mess up your karma.

We are all deluded victims of the great illusion that the physical brain perpetrates on us. This life is a total scam. The physical world is designed to create conflicts and arguing endlessly only makes things worse. Don't fall into the trap that the designers have set for you. If you can see a little bit through that delusion, then you might recognize that those who are fooled to a greater extent deserve more sympathy than antipathy.

[Craig Weiler]

My journey on this forum has been to understand skepticism on an emotional level because I react strongly to it. I can tell that I've largely accomplished this because I find that I don't take the skeptics seriously anymore.

They come to the edge of understanding and then back away over and over again. It's tantalizing at times to believe that they might make an emotional breakthrough and realize what they're doing, but ultimately, it's their journey and completely unimportant for me to engage them. It's too much work and I'm not getting paid for it.

The important part of the journey for me is to stop entertaining any notion whatsoever that they might be right. Seeing their broken thought processes over and over again has helped immensely in this regard.

[gabriel]

90% of the board is yes it is - no it isn't stuff. The 'no it isn't' is based on willful ignorance and prejudice couched in the language of semantics. When it becomes too tribal, just look away.

[Sextus70]

In my case, I met this forum looking for serious and reliable evidence for most paranormal phenomena after some "discussions" that made me doubt about many my preconceived beliefs. Here I learned that there were more interesting studies and scientific data that supported many of them, and also that most people who call themselves skeptics are not real and honest true seekers if not prejudiced, resentful and tribal minded people which only interest is to "win" arguments (even if you either asked to play a "game" or to try to convince them) and impose you their truth even if it's about something which is not 100% clear, ambiguous and dependent of subjective criteria (for example, Art, History and Philosophy related topics), and thus is a loss of time to "debate" with them because they really are not interested in exchanging ideas.

However, skepticism is not always bad and is good to take a look to the opposing evidence of some of your hypothesis. For example, I saw an Ancient Aliens (I know, not the most "serious" show to bring out scientific conclussions) old episode from History Channel which had a interesting claim about a really old map which supposedly had an accuracy and preciseness imposible for its time when it was made (1513), even representing antarctica. However, I searched on Internet and I discovered many skeptical "debunking" statements that resulted to be convincing and well made and in the end I had to accept that the map was nothing out of the ordinary and that it is a silly and irresponsible idea to claim that it was made thanks for the data and information given by old lost civilizations and even alien beings.

However, there are many other topics where I think that the pro skeptical party is still plain wrong, and that many of their "super rational" statements such as the Occam's Razor (including the new Hitchens's razor), Russell's teapot and Sagan's famous quote to dismiss most o them, show how subjective, absurd, emotional and ironically tending to wishful thinking can their reasoning be.

Regards!

[fls]

Originally Posted by NinjaKitty7

Has it ever come to a point where you are just sick of the debates? Where you are either crazy or something is real, but either way, you have to start going forward without hesitating on the knifes edge of the "is it real" debate? Not that I think intellectual is worthless, or that self examination is pointless, far from. But if there is something to these experiences a lot of us have, is it really worth it to continue debating at risk of losing time to go forward? In other words, when do you just say, "alright, I want to see what's behind door #2"?

I think that much of the reason people come here to participate in the debate part is to find out "why don't proponents/non-proponents see what I see?" Once you see an answer to that question, further engagement really only serves to reinforce it, which may mean that debate only serves to reinforce negative and unpleasant attributions. And nobody likes debating with someone who regards you with disgust.

I agree with the advice you have received. If that is where you find yourself, it doesn't seem like the way forward is to feed into that negativity. But I thought this forum already had the capacity for proponent discussion without the "is it real?" debate? You may want to ask around if you haven't already been invited to the Game Show.

Linda

[Quantumfog]

The debate is good. The rancor is not, but hey, sometimes that happens. People manage to get past it and carry on.

Unlike other forums, this serious minded group presents the best evidence, then asks the best questions about that evidence. Feathers get ruffled along the way, but that's good too. It keeps us from being that hypnotized chicken staring at a line.

I'm here because of experiences and observations that lead me to think something extraordinary is afoot. I'm constantly intrigued by the possibilities while impatient with simple minded self-serving anecdotes and straw man arguments.

I'm here because the level of your conversation resonates with my journey.

[Sextus70]

Originally Posted by Quantumfog

The debate is good. The rancor is not, but hey, sometimes that happens. People manage to get past it and carry on.

Unlike other forums, this serious minded group presents the best evidence, then asks the best questions about that evidence. Feathers get ruffled along the way, but that's good too. It keeps us from being that hypnotized chicken staring at a line.

I'm here because of experiences and observations that lead me to think something extraordinary is afoot. I'm constantly intrigued by the possibilities while impatient with simple minded self-serving anecdotes and straw man arguments.

I'm here because of the level of your conversation resonates with my journey.

Exactly! Debating and knowing what the other side of the fence says is not bad itself, in fact, it helps to archieve greater levels of knowledge assurance, it becomes bad when that side has an hostile and resentful attitude as if you were inferior and as consequence you deserve to be punished.

This is the main reason because I don't like to discuss topics like this with most radical skeptics (especially militant atheists) on Internet, I simply can't stand their air of hostility, arrogance and mockery that most of them carry with their statements and way to express them, and when you show them that fact, they have the guts to say that they are only criticizing the ideas (although the way to express your thoughs about those ideas is equally important) not the person, which in my opinion is only an excuse to behave like a total High school douche bag and mistreat people who don't think like them (for me, the way how you express to people reflects the respect and your feelings towards them, and thus is important to always be civil and polite with anyone if they are in that way with you, even if you think that they have "irrational" beliefs).

Regards!

[billw]

The "debate" used to annoy me--but it was never the fact that there were two sides, and it was only the skeptics who didn't debate, but instead put forth their view in the typical condescending and sarcastic manner. This no longer bothers me at all--I even find it mildly amusing how I can read just one paragraph from a random Internet essay on these topics (or sometimes just the title) and immediately know that if I look up the author's background I'll find that they're a member of CSICOP (or whatever they call it now). It never fails!

I do get tired of the technical debates, particularly those over statistical analysis of psi experiments. It's like studying baseball statistics your whole life but never playing baseball yourself! Psychic skills and intuition are meant to be developed and applied in life, and to me that is much more interesting.

Cheers,
Bill

[NinjaKitty7]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I definitely needed a break. Everyone gave a lot to think about. Thanks!