NDE Research From a Christian Perspective (Podcast)

[Venom]

Originally Posted by Lekatt

Another is there is nothing to fear in death or life.

Well, if there is nothing to fear in life, it doesn't really matter if I kill my neighour (after all, he's going in a better world, so what?). And I can drive my car at 180km/hour dowtown, because if death is not the end, what the heck.

If death is not the end, and we shouldn't fear it, well everyone can start to be wild. We can all smoke, and so on.

[Lekatt]

Originally Posted by Venom

Well, if there is nothing to fear in life, it doesn't really matter if I kill my neighour (after all, he's going in a better world, so what?). And I can drive my car at 180km/hour dowtown, because if death is not the end, what the heck.

If death is not the end, and we shouldn't fear it, well everyone can start to be wild. We can all smoke, and so on.

You didn't do a fair quote, I said: "One of the lessons is there is complete justice in the world. Whatever you do to others returns to you. Another is there is nothing to fear in death or life."

If you kill someone you kill yourself. Never heard of a near death experiencer harming anyone.

[idunno]

Out-of-Body Experiences: All in the Brain?
response by researchers

[Open Mind]

Originally Posted by idunno

Out-of-Body Experiences: All in the Brain?
response by researchers

Hi 'I dunno' .... good name

Thanks for the link .... I will read it later

[idunno]

The problem is that those skeptics always seem to make good points. But they all neglect the experiencer and his/her experiencer themselves. For them, the NDE'rs the experience was so real, even more real than reality, and so much so that it changed their lives completely. It is often said that hallucinations do so as well. That may occasionally be so, but for NDE'rs it is common. It is the most striking after effect.

Anyway, I have given up arguing with skeptics as regards the NDE. It is a waste of time and energy.

from a researcher

[Venom]

Originally Posted by idunno

Anyway, I have given up arguing with skeptics as regards the NDE. It is a waste of time and energy.

That being said, do you have any interresting thing to say about the topic?

The "bashing the skeptics when I don't have any good argument" tendency of Alex is spreading to others on this forum (or maybe it's a common tendency about believers).

[David Bailey]

Does the fact that an NDE-like experience can be induced by experimental methods actually prove anything important one way or the other? I have read that pilots in centrifuges also experience something similar.

If you believe that NDE's are all in the brain, this research just seems to confirm this. Alternatively, if you believe that NDE's happen as consciousness is being forced out of the brain because the brain is no longer working, then the electrical stimulation can be thought as pushing the brain into some sort of trauma.

Of course, artificial NDE's could be very useful for research - does the expanding consciousness return with any new information, for example.

David

[eyemsougly]

Originally Posted by David Bailey

Does the fact that an NDE-like experience can be induced by experimental methods actually prove anything important one way or the other?

no

I have read that pilots in centrifuges also experience something similar.

definately have a lot in common, that's for sure. Feelings of peace, seeing dead relatives, etc. Ketamine can do some of the same things as well.

Of course, artificial NDE's could be very useful for research - does the expanding consciousness return with any new information, for example.

yeah but you probably shouldn't hold your breath waiting for volunteers to take part in those experiments.



idunno: when my mom was in college if she went to the movies with her boyfriend they had to sit in the back of the theatre in case he had to run out screaming if he had a flashback to one of his acid trips. Hallucinations can be very powerful.

[Open Mind]

David Bailey writes ...
I have read that pilots in centrifuges also experience something similar.

eyemsouugly, are you sure? Yes fighter pilots see tunnels during rapid acceleration training ... but 'feelings of peace'? I could be wrong but I was under the impression pilots training experience disorientation and confusion more than 'feelings of peace'

And fighter pilots reporting 'seeing dead relatives'? Is there any documented case of this? I think it was Dr Peter Fenwick that said fighter pilots experiences didn't closely match typical NDEs.....

[eyemsougly]

I'd have to re look it up but it is my understanding that fighter pilots in training do report very NDE like experiences, not sure how common though.

One of the big differences is that there doesn't seem to be as many reports of distressing or just plain weird NDE's (like seeing a Russian battlefield or meeting Elvis)