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Old 12-01-2009, 09:23 AM
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Default 88. Scientific Community Unfair to Dr. Rupert Sheldrake, Imperial College London Diss

Faced with choosing a prominent figure for his Science and Society Masters dissertation, Phillip Stevens avoided the obvious.nbsp; Instead of Kepler, Newton, or ...

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Old 12-01-2009, 10:14 PM
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Thanks Alex. Great interview and very informative. I found it interesting how physicists are the most open to research into these issues while psychologists are the least open. I wonder why that is.
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Old 12-02-2009, 12:51 AM
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1543 - Copernicus - Heliocentric Theory
.
1687 – Isaac Newton - Laws of Motion
.
1859 - Charles Darwin/Alfred Wallace - Theory of Natural Selection
.
1873 - James Clerk Maxwell: Theory of Electromagnetism

1900 - Max Planck - Quantum Theory
.
1905 Albert Einstein - Theory of Special and General Relativity
.
1980 Rupert Sheldrake! - Morphic Resonance Theory!

1981/1994 John Maddox (member of CSIcop) - Book burning and heresy theory.....
YouTube - John Maddox (Book For Burning)




Opps ... I forgot Pele in 1970
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Old 12-02-2009, 02:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Open Mind View Post
1543 - Copernicus - Heliocentric Theory
.
1687 – Isaac Newton - Laws of Motion
.
1859 - Charles Darwin/Alfred Wallace - Theory of Natural Selection
.
1873 - James Clerk Maxwell: Theory of Electromagnetism

1900 - Max Planck - Quantum Theory
.
1905 Albert Einstein - Theory of Special and General Relativity
.
1980 Rupert Sheldrake! - Morphic Resonance Theory!

1981/1994 John Maddox (member of CSIcop) - Book burning and heresy theory.....
YouTube - John Maddox (Book For Burning)




Opps ... I forgot Pele in 1970
I'm so glad to see you include Alfred Wallace Open Mind. I see him as a kindred soul to Sheldrake.

Last edited by OC68; 12-02-2009 at 03:16 AM.
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Old 12-02-2009, 04:47 AM
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Originally Posted by OC68 View Post
Thanks Alex. Great interview and very informative. I found it interesting how physicists are the most open to research into these issues while psychologists are the least open. I wonder why that is.
The latest edition of Rupert's book, "A New Science of Life" contains a discussion between him and the late David Bohm.



I think it stands to reason, really. Psychologists and even biologists and neurophysiologists just take standard physics for granted. Never in their training (at least I imagine!) were they asked to consider the possibility that the bedrock of science might not be complete. I did chemistry, and the same was true - you took the basic physics for granted - much like maths. On the other hand, theoretical physicists must think that way a lot.

Erwin Schroedinger speculated about the nature of life (and not just in relation to his cat scenario), and the physicist Roger Penrose is interested in the ultimate nature of consciousness.

David
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Old 12-02-2009, 07:48 AM
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Stevens doesn't seem to have done more than rehash Sheldrake's tired complaints. For the sake of irony avoidance he should have made at least a token attempt to get the other side before declaring unfairness.
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Old 12-02-2009, 08:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Open Mind
1543 - Copernicus - Heliocentric Theory
.
1687 – Isaac Newton - Laws of Motion
.
1859 - Charles Darwin/Alfred Wallace - Theory of Natural Selection
.
1873 - James Clerk Maxwell: Theory of Electromagnetism

1900 - Max Planck - Quantum Theory
.
1905 Albert Einstein - Theory of Special and General Relativity
.
1980 Rupert Sheldrake! - Morphic Resonance Theory!
I'm not sure what Sheldrake has to do with these other folks. Is this one of those "he's laughed at, others were laughed at but proven correct, so Sheldrake must be correct" arguments?

~~ Paul
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Old 12-02-2009, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
I think it stands to reason, really. Psychologists and even biologists and neurophysiologists just take standard physics for granted. Never in their training (at least I imagine!) were they asked to consider the possibility that the bedrock of science might not be complete. I did chemistry, and the same was true - you took the basic physics for granted - much like maths. On the other hand, theoretical physicists must think that why a lot.
The only survey I could find right now is from 1979 (actually I only found it quoted variously).
...only about 3% of National Academy of Sciences members believe in psychic phenomena. However, 55% of our natural scientists believe ESP is either an established fact or a likely possibility. Comparable figures for other disciplines are higher: 66% of our social scientists [excluding psychologists] and 77% of our academics in the arts, humanities, and education accept ESP at least as a likely possibility. Of the psychologists surveyed, 34% actually believe psi is an impossibility, while only 2% of the other respondents maintained this position.
Only 34% of psychologists believe that ESP is a fact or a likely possibility
(Wagner and Monnet 1979).


The survey is old but while I suspect that numbers overall might be lower (with the high time of Geller & co being long past) I don't think they should be qualitatively different.

We can see that physics does not make people susceptible to psi-belief. Artsy people are more believing, sciency people less so. Just like the cliche would have it.
The odd group out is the psychologists who are markedly disbelieving. My personal explanation is that this is due to the fact that they encounter psi beliefs usually in the context of mental illness. There it is easy to see them as obviously untrue and also there is motivation to demarcate themselves from their patients.
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Old 12-02-2009, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by OC68 View Post
I'm so glad to see you include Alfred Wallace Open Mind. I see him as a kindred soul to Sheldrake.
An over condensed list, full of countless holes .... it doesn't show the gradual unravelling of material realism with Heisenberg uncertainty principle ... wave/particle duality ....or perhaps the biggest wrecker of local material realism John Bell's (Inequality) Theorem ...

With regard to modest Alfred Wallace seldom getting equal credit for co-discovering natural selection .... he committed an establishment taboo! ... he supported experimental evidence of telepathy and believed in discarnate spirits (and God, whatever that means) .... materialists have ever since imagined natural selection hammers non-materialists viewpoint but the co-discoveror was a non-materialist who didn't think these were incompatible at all

Last edited by Open Mind; 12-02-2009 at 10:24 AM.
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Old 12-02-2009, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Paul C. Anagnostopoulos View Post
I'm not sure what Sheldrake has to do with these other folks. Is this one of those "he's laughed at, others were laughed at but proven correct, so Sheldrake must be correct" arguments?

~~ Paul
Paul, I think you taking my post too seriously .... Sheldrake's theory is very intriguing but like any theory throughout history owes much to those who went before ...names like William James, Henri Bergson, Carl Jung and many others ...

Even Max Planck once said “We have no right to assume that any physical laws exist, or if they have existed up to now, that they will continue to exist in a similar manner in the future.”

Sheldrake deserves the credit for also challenging the classical notion of fixed enterally true laws ... Sheldrake concept of laws forming like habits makes a lot of sense! . ....I think future generations will probably laugh more at the reaction of his opponents.

Last edited by Open Mind; 12-02-2009 at 10:27 AM.
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