Dog ESP before earthquake (not)

[davidsmith73]

A Daily Mail online article claims a video of a dog bolting for the door moments before an earthquake shows evidence for a sixth sense. This is typical bad journalism, but what I would expect from the Daily Mail.

Evidence of dogs' sixth-sense as K9 bolts before earthquake strikes American office block | Mail Online

It's easy to see yourself, but look at the first CCTV footage. The dog jumps up at 17:21:38. Now look at the second CCTV footage. You can cleary see a tremor that starts at 17:21:38 evidenced by shaking windows.

Sometimes, I can understand why sceptics are so narky. Do you think this kind of sensationalism does harm to the idea of real ESP?

[Miguel]

Originally Posted by davidsmith73

Do you think this kind of sensationalism does harm to the idea of real ESP?

Without it there probably would be hardly any believers. When people think of ESP they rarely think of minuscule effects that only emerge by advanced statistics.

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

Originally Posted by davidsmith

It's easy to see yourself, but look at the first CCTV footage. The dog jumps up at 17:21:38. Now look at the second CCTV footage. You can cleary see a tremor that starts at 17:21:38 evidenced by shaking windows.

Heck, even if the dog jumped up 10 seconds before any obvious tremor, it could just be sensitivity to vibration.

~~ Paul

[Breanainn]

Kinda related, but was there anything to those stories of animals going to high ground hours before the big Asian tsunami hit? True, exaggerated halftruth, or bollocks?

[Open Mind]

Originally Posted by davidsmith73

Sometimes, I can understand why sceptics are so narky. Do you think this kind of sensationalism does harm to the idea of real ESP?

Yes .... ironically keen believers think exagerating helps them make a stronger case .... it doesn't, all that happens is it allows professional skeptics to raise the bar to demand 'extraordinary evidence' to the level of the over top claims

A honest, modest psi claim and the professional skeptics will tend to ignore it rather than risk a replication attempt that might produce a positive result to try explain away as not extraordinary enough evidence.

[Interesting Ian]

Originally Posted by davidsmith73

Sometimes, I can understand why sceptics are so narky. Do you think this kind of sensationalism does harm to the idea of real ESP?

Yes absolutely definitely! What skeptics never seem to be able to wrap their heads around is the fact that this doesn't actually give evidence against ESP. It doesn't give any evidence for ESP - obviously. But it doesn't provide any evidence against ESP either. And I really have tried hard to explain this, especially on the jref. But to no avail. I can't be bothered arguing with skeptics anymore. They seem perfectly immune to understanding anything. Ultimately what can you say when they think that daft articles in tabloid newspapers present powerful evidence against ESP?

[Interesting Ian]

Originally Posted by Miguel

Without it there probably would be hardly any believers. When people think of ESP they rarely think of minuscule effects that only emerge by advanced statistics.

If this is so I don't think it says much for the rationality of human beings generally since there have been reports of ESP and other anomalous phenomena throughout history and across all cultures. And that's leaving aside all the stuff which is easily explained away.

Personally my belief in ESP has nothing to do with the scientific data.

[Ersby]

Originally Posted by Interesting Ian

It doesn't give any evidence for ESP - obviously.

But it does present itself as evidence for ESP, so it is damaging.

I think it's evidence that the Daily Mail can't be trusted.

[sparky]

Originally Posted by Breanainn

Kinda related, but was there anything to those stories of animals going to high ground hours before the big Asian tsunami hit? True, exaggerated halftruth, or bollocks?

at first glance that seems to be genuine , especially for the domesticated elephants that are used by loggers.
could be explaind though , elephants are very sensitive for vibrations in the soles of their feet .
since the tsunami was caused by an earthquake and vibrations in the ground propagated faster than the tsunami , to me it is very well possible

at least that is what i have seen on some science show

edit: cannot find a reputable source to confirm this , probably myth that made it into a pop.science show , can't remember which though
at least the part of the elephant having sensitive feet i am sure of

[sparky]

Originally Posted by Interesting Ian

Personally my belief in ESP has nothing to do with the scientific data.

does dat not make your belief in ESP equal to religion ?
your good right ofcourse , but very brave and refreshing on this forum