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Old 02-03-2010, 11:05 AM
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Default 94. Dr. Jeffrey Long?s Near-Death Experience Research a ?Game Changer? for Science (P

The most comprehensive research into near-death experience deals a kill shot to skeptics and aims to change how science views the afterlife.

Science has studied the ...

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Old 02-03-2010, 01:29 PM
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Hey look, I can report an NDE at his site:

Share NDE

I presume none of those reports were used as evidence in his book, right?

Please tell me that if I buy his book, I'm really going to find scientific evidence?

~~ Paul
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Old 02-03-2010, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by alextsakiris View Post
The most comprehensive research into near-death experience deals a kill shot to skeptics and aims to change how science views the afterlife.

Science has studied the ...

Click here to read more ...
Hey Alex,
Thanks again for a great interview. I'm glad you stayed with some of Dr. Nelsons points about blood flow to the brain. Dr Nelson I believe also made another point about a hightened state fight flight which I would have been interested in hearing Dr. Longs response.

The main concern I have with Dr. Long and his book and maybe it's just my sensibility - is his certaintly - he uses the word absolutely repeatedly - also he inferes proof of an afterlife and touts his book as the definitive study-which it probably is - but in a way that makes me uneasy - I think this will tend to radically polarize the response from the scientific and medical industrial complex. I think in challenging the world view of such a powerful body you could elicit retaliation in the form of witch hunt like attacks. Gary Schwatrz was on the recieving end of that sort of thing in the media. Just as Dr Nelson would not engage point by point with Dr long, I think that the materialist won't accept a fair playing field. I think it would be more prudent to try to establish with reasonable certainly that people have conscious experiences that could not be produced by the brain before possibly overstating the case of an afterlife in such grand fashion.
Then again maybe Dr. Jeffrey Longs bold approach is a breath of fresh air that will open hearts and minds. I hope so.
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Old 02-03-2010, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Paul C. Anagnostopoulos View Post
Hey look, I can report an NDE at his site:

Share NDE

I presume none of those reports were used as evidence in his book, right?

Please tell me that if I buy his book, I'm really going to find scientific evidence?

~~ Paul
I also hope he does not rely mainly on web based information - perhaps Alex knows.

It was a very good interview, even if a touch overconfident as Larry4444 says. Hopefully his book will be popular enough to appear in a bookstore - I like to look before I buy!

NDE's are amazing - and utterly unexpected - phenomena, and as Dr. Long said, I don't think there is a conventional explanation out there that even the skeptics are really happy with.

David
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Old 02-03-2010, 05:05 PM
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I don't have a great deal of hope, but from the interview...

Quote:
I might add that there’s been a prior scholarly study of over 90 near-death experiencers where they found 92 percent of the observations of these NDEs and the OBE state were accurate in every single detail.
Does anyone have a citation for this?
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Old 02-03-2010, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by larry4444 View Post
Hey Alex,
Thanks again for a great interview. I'm glad you stayed with some of Dr. Nelsons points about blood flow to the brain. Dr Nelson I believe also made another point about a hightened state fight flight which I would have been interested in hearing Dr. Longs response.

The main concern I have with Dr. Long and his book and maybe it's just my sensibility - is his certaintly - he uses the word absolutely repeatedly - also he inferes proof of an afterlife and touts his book as the definitive study-which it probably is - but in a way that makes me uneasy - I think this will tend to radically polarize the response from the scientific and medical industrial complex. I think in challenging the world view of such a powerful body you could elicit retaliation in the form of witch hunt like attacks. Gary Schwatrz was on the recieving end of that sort of thing in the media. Just as Dr Nelson would not engage point by point with Dr long, I think that the materialist won't accept a fair playing field. I think it would be more prudent to try to establish with reasonable certainly that people have conscious experiences that could not be produced by the brain before possibly overstating the case of an afterlife in such grand fashion.
Then again maybe Dr. Jeffrey Longs bold approach is a breath of fresh air that will open hearts and minds. I hope so.
I hear ya, but I like Dr. Long's approach. There really isn't any grey area here -- consciousness survives death or it doesn't. Right now, the evidence is quite overwhelmingly pointing toward -- DOES. And his position on the afterlife is also very refreshing. Look either the NDE data is what it appears or it's total junk... again it appears very strong... once you get there you have to cross the chasm.
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Old 02-03-2010, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Ersby View Post
I don't have a great deal of hope, but from the interview...



Does anyone have a citation for this?
It's in the book.
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Old 02-03-2010, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul C. Anagnostopoulos View Post
Hey look, I can report an NDE at his site:

Share NDE

I presume none of those reports were used as evidence in his book, right?

Please tell me that if I buy his book, I'm really going to find scientific evidence?

~~ Paul
yes... lots... go ahead and buy it.
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Old 02-03-2010, 06:25 PM
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So the negative reviewers at Amazon are mistaken?

Amazon.com: Customer Reviews: Evidence of the Afterlife: The Science of Near-Death Experiences

I have just bought the book. If this thing turns out to be a bunch of anecdotes collected on the Web I'm going to be really annoyed.

~~ Paul
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Old 02-03-2010, 06:27 PM
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I have corresponded with Dr. Long before via e-mail, and being one that accepts the possibility of NDEs being some sort of transcendent experience I think he's a little too over-enthusiastic. He told me about his book back in December, and he made it sound like it was his mission to tell the whole world about NDEs. I think his heart's in the right place, but he's overestimating his case. I personally think also appearing on Coast-to-Coast AM (Long's been on there more than once) also some what makes you seem a little bit looney and I think that's a reason why other researchers have avoided things like that.

Paul, from what I've heard (as I haven't read the book) his book does refer to some cases submitted via the online form on NDERF. I think his book might be a bit of a stretch to call it scientific, I'll give you that much.

There's no doubt that among the 2,000 NDE accounts on NDERF that there are probably some that are fake or fabricated. However, I kind of doubt the assumption that all of the accounts submitted there are fake, that's almost conspiracy theory territory there. Anita Moorjani's account was submitted on there and there are news articles that at least shows proof the very least she had a medical crisis:

Anita M's NDE 2766

NDERF Forum :: View topic - Anita Moorjani's NDE

:: Anita Moorjani :: Creating Heaven on Earth (Anita's website which contains media references and interviews about her experience, note that some of them are skeptical)

On an interesting note, and I think it's something that a lot of people aren't aware of is where Kevin Nelson got his sample from for his REM Intrusion study on NDEs. If you take a look, surprise, surprise:

Quote:
To try to answer this question, Nelson, Mattingly, Lee, and Schmitt
conducted a study involving a survey of an NDE group and
a comparison group. For the NDE group, 446 North American adult
self-reported NDErs, who had posted their NDEs at the Near-Death
Experience Research Foundation (NDERF) web site
, were invited by
e-mail to participate in a study.
http://www.iands.org/images/stories/...mintrusion.pdf

I think there's a problem there. If people are skeptical about Long using accounts in his book from his website (which as Paul pointed out anyone can submit an account to and thus the possibility of forgery), shouldn't we be careful about Nelson's study? I hope Dr. Nelson at least got permission from hospitals to at least see if the people he interviewed are at least telling the truth, that they were in the hospital. Thus potentially within the interviews he did for his study, there's the possibility his sample could have been contaminated by people who've never had an NDE and only made one up (potentially to seek attention, etc.).

However, even with verification of a medical crisis in the hospital there still is a bit of "faith" or "trust" required in the research regardless if you view NDEs as a brain generated experience or a glimpse of another dimension. You could be there to witness someone at a hospital clinically die and be revived and he or she will discuss about having an NDE right after. However, given that NDEs are subjective experiences, do you know for sure they actually had one? Once again, there's the potential for fraud, maybe the patient has a good imagination and made up the experience after their "death" for reasons such as attention seeking.

My point is that yeah, Dr. Long's reporting service is not perfect. I think he or his wife actually points out it's up to the reader to decide whether an account on his website is true or not. But at the same time, even with skeptical studies like Dr. Nelson's we kind of have to take for word that the NDE patients are telling the truth.
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