1 Million Dollar Challenge To Materialists – Prove A Computer Can Experience A Dream!

[FastEddieB]

You could have the most wonderfully 'artificially intelligent' computer, and you would still be unable to prove it was actually conscious (experienced qualia).

Again, can't you say the same thing about any person other than yourself?

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

Originally Posted by Danny D

Paul, you can make it as complicated as you want, the underlying problem wont go away.

So everyone says. Can you give a precise description of the "problem"?

This is the basic explanation from materialists; To bury consciousness under all that complexity as something fuzzy and undefined. The second one to deny it even exists.

Let's say I'm not doing either. Now what is the exact problem?

~~ Paul

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

Originally Posted by David Bailey

Well it counts by weakening some of your arguments that use that same inability. If you say there is no proof that NDE's are not just hallucinations or dreams (actually there is some evidence), it is worth pointing out that proof is very hard to come by in these matters. You could have the most wonderfully 'artificially intelligent' computer, and you would still be unable to prove it was actually conscious (experienced qualia).

You're begging the question here. I might be able to prove that is was conscious because (1) I have come to understand what consciousness is; (b) I have come to understand the source of consciousness; and (c) I have programmed that source as part of my AI. To say that I cannot have done this is simply to assert that consciousness is not computation. But that is the original question, isn't it?

If you still refuse to say that the AI is conscious, then, as FastEddie points out, you must do the same for other humans.

~~ Paul

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

Originally Posted by paqart

To Paul: The difference in computing power between a human brain and a computer is irrelevant, because the level of mechanical complexity is not what causes consciousness. Instead, it is necessary to carry out the complex instructions delivered to a body, just as the chips on a computer allow it to carry out, but not to invent, instructions. There is such a thing as artificial intelligence, but it is not the same thing because there, the AI is modeled after something else, and it isn't artificial.

You'll have to try again. I don't understand what you're saying here.

~~ Paul

[Open Mind]

The 1 Million Dollars Preliminary Test

As humans have provided extraordinary evidence they possess dream telepathy i.e.....

Human Dream Telepathy : 47 studies, 1027 sessions
Odds against chance of 22,000,000,000 to 1

All dream machines claiming to be conscious must read a human conscious mind as part of the preliminary test to proceed to next stage.

[sparky]

Originally Posted by David Bailey

I think it is very similar in spirit to OM's prize!

no it's not , that's exactly the point i was trying to make
again
OM prize : attempt to parody , but ultimately a straw man
JREFprize : real bullshitstopper

this is a lame try to reverse the burden of proof :
dualism puts an extra layer on the brain that doesn't emerge from the research on the workings of our thinkorgan.
if you persist the mind exists separately , you have to do the work

[Open Mind]

Originally Posted by sparky

is the JREF prize unfair ?
or do you think it is unfair because nobody has succeeded in taking the money ?

I've answered this in other topics. It is unfair, unscientific, purely a media stunt. It is a distraction from a vastly superior research in parapsychology (and earlier psychical research)

[Open Mind]

Originally Posted by Paul C. Anagnostopoulos

This definition is not crisp enough for a challenge.

You do not understand qualia? I think you are denying this like Denial Dennett.... oops I mean Daniel Dennett

So you're offering a challenge without specifying what we actually have to do to win it. I guess it was a rhetorical challenge.

I've added preliminary test ... this however is not the real qualia test, that will be even harder to pass! As conscious computers with qualia are such an extraordinary claim I require extraordinary evidence to give prize .

The amusing thing here is that you say you're basing this on the JREF challenge rules, where "[they] decide what qualifies as a proper test, the level of extraordinary evidence required," but then you respond "not my problem" to those very questions. This is a beautiful example of how bollocksed up some people's view of the JREF challenge is.

It is not my fault none of materialists metaphoric machines have qualia (or at least can prove it)

[Open Mind]

Originally Posted by paqart

I am really enjoying this thread.

So am I

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

Originally Posted by Open Mind

You do not understand qualia? I think you are denying this like Denial Dennett.... oops I mean Daniel Dennett

I have been involved in three or four challenges and I can assure you that "You do not understand X?" was not taken as a sufficient description of the claim.

It is not my fault none of materialists machines have qualia (or at least can prove it)

Evasion noted.

~~ Paul