Transplant memory - a related phenomenon?

[Arten60]

Originally Posted by Paul C. Anagnostopoulos

If you don't stop flip-flopping on whether you think the brainstem is part of the brain, then what you say is never going to make any sense.

I mention the brainstem because these people have brainstems, and the brainstem is part of the brain. So you are incorrect when you say the people have no brains. And in the case of the college student, he has a cortex. Do you understand that he has a cortex?

The other problem is that you are simply assuming that the person and chicken with only a brainstem are conscious. You do not know if this is true.

~~ Paul

Then you have to answer the question and this is the third time I have asked it, if consciousness arises solely in the brain stem which is your assertion, then why did evolution give us such large craniums with all the inherent risk due to child birth. I mean it seems to be a complete waste of time and effort if its all coming from a tiny brain stem.
Then you claim that those with just a brain stem may not be conscious, it seems to me you are confused. That does not surprise me, instead of accepting your model is just plain wrong, you are trying to shore it up with arguments that just make no sense.
The model proposed by people like Sheldrake, Radin, Lipton et al clearly is able to deal with these cases plus all other so-called psi phenomena.

"Progress is impossible without change, and those who cannot change their minds cannot change anything."
George Bernard Shaw

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

Originally Posted by Arten60

Then you have to answer the question and this is the third time I have asked it, if consciousness arises solely in the brain stem which is your assertion, then why did evolution give us such large craniums with all the inherent risk due to child birth. I mean it seems to be a complete waste of time and effort if its all coming from a tiny brain stem.

You know, if you would actually read posts and answer the questions therein, it would go a long way to removing the appearance that you are simply a liar. Please either answer this question or stop repeating that I think consciousness comes from the brainstem:

Could you quote exactly where I said that consciousness comes from the brainstem?

Then you claim that those with just a brain stem may not be conscious, it seems to me you are confused. That does not surprise me, instead of accepting your model is just plain wrong, you are trying to shore it up with arguments that just make no sense.

Do you think it's possible that you are simply wrong that I claimed that consciousness arises from the brainstem? That would also explain the apparent contradiction.

The model proposed by people like Sheldrake, Radin, Lipton et al clearly is able to deal with these cases plus all other so-called psi phenomena.

What model is that?

~~ Paul

[Miguel]

Originally Posted by Arten60

why did evolution give us such large craniums with all the inherent risk due to child birth. I mean it seems to be a complete waste of time and effort if its all coming from a tiny brain stem.

Most (or all?) of our organs have lots of redundant capacity. EG we have 2 lungs and 2 kidneys although one could live with one without much limitations.

Babies with hydranencephaly usually die within the first year. A few become over 20 but I did not find a single mention of anyone surviving past thirty. Andrew Vandal would now be 25... IOW he's probably dead already.

I couldn't find more info on that math student but I seriously wonder if he wasn't misdiagnosed. Anyone got something on him?

[Miguel]

Originally Posted by David Bailey

Now that there are many people alive and well after receiving a heart transplant, there are some strange reports that sometimes some of the memories of the donor get transplanted too! For example,

The Book Of THoTH - ESP & PSI - Transplant Memory?

Some time ago, there was a program devoted to this phenomenon on UK TV. A few scientists supported the idea - pointing out that there is considerable nervous tissue in the heart - while others were skeptics.

Obviously, it must be hard to overestimate the change for someone when they wake up with a new, well functioning heart, after years (or even a whole lifetime) of disability. However, it would seem that sometimes very specific memories are transferred - such as a love of classical music. One lady described how she was chatting with friends as she recovered and said "Oh I do want to get out of here and have a beer". She had never previously enjoyed beer, but her donor had!

Most of the reported changes supposedly associated with a heart transplant are not necessarily memory-related. For example developing a taste in beer, or generally a different taste in food.
Such changes can also be brought about by certain medications that are necessary after a transplant. These drugs can also affect personality.
Taking up new activities is also unsurprising as people requiring a heart transplant may simply not be able to partake in any kind of activity until receiving a transplant.

I also looked up additional case reports but nothing was as such incompatible with the known effects and side/effects associated with a heart transplant and post-op treatment. Confirmation bias may explain contrary assertions.

There is one exception in the article that poses a puzzle. This 2 sentences:
There is the 8-year-old girl who got the heart of a 10-year-old murder victim, according to medical reports. Plagued by nightmares of the crime after her transplant, the girl used the images in her dreams to help locate and convict her donor's killer.

Frustratingly and surprisingly no further information is given on this the most intrigueing anecdote presented. I attempted to chase it down and much to my surprise even succeeded at finding an online copy of the source:

A Sherlock Holmes Heart

One of many cases that seem to reinforce this principle that the heart's memory and intelligence lie outside the brain's control was revealed to me recently when I spoke to an international group of psychologists, psychiatrists, and social workers meeting in Houston, Texas. I spoke to them concerning my ideas about the central role of the heart in our psychological and spiritual life and, following my presentation, a psychiatrist came to the microphone during the question and answer session to ask me about one of her clients, whose experience seemed to substantiate my ideas about cellular memories and a thinking heart. The case disturbed her so much that she struggled to speak through the tears.
Sobbing to the point that the audience and I had difficulty understanding her, she said, "I have a patient, an eight-year-old girl who received the heart of a murdered ten-year-old girl. Her mother brought her to me when she started screaming at night about her dreams of the man who had murdered her donor. She said her daughter knew who it was. After several sessions, I could not deny the reality of what this child was telling me. Her mother and I finally decided to call the police and, using the descriptions from the little girl, they found the murderer. He was easily convicted with evidence my patient provided. The time, weapon, place, clothes he wore, what the little girl he killed had said to him ... everything the little heart transplant recipient reported was completely accurate."

As the therapist returned to her seat, the audience of scientifically trained and clinically experienced professionals sat in silence. I could hear quiet sobbing and see tears in the eyes of the doctors in the front row. Unlike many presentations at scientific forums, this time there was no expression of doubt or skepticism. The very real possibility of a heart that remembers seemed to touch all of these scientists in their own hearts.

Not only did this girl's--her--heart's--memory come up through her dreams, where certainly there is no mental effort involved in summoning the memory, but I maintain that the scientists in the room felt the energetic connection among all of us and they knew that it was something that extended outside the boundaries of current rational understanding.