Challenge to debunkers: Can you prove hallucinations are generated inside brain :-)

[Open Mind]

Originally Posted by Paul C. Anagnostopoulos

Please stop calling me a materialist. I'm not calling you an idealist or a dualist.
l

Paul, sorry about that. I did not mean it in the common useage sense of worshipping material things. Later ....

[Interesting Ian]

Originally Posted by Paul C. Anagnostopoulos

I don't think telepathy is the same thing as a metamind. It's existence certainly doesn't imply that my consciousness is seated somewhere other than my brain.

~~ Paul

Why do you keep banging on about a metamind Paul? What is it, and what has it got to do with anything??

[David Bailey]

Originally Posted by Interesting Ian

Why do you keep banging on about a metamind Paul?

It sounds like something out of Dr. Who

David

[Interesting Ian]

Originally Posted by David Bailey

It sounds like something out of Dr. Who

David

Years ago on the jref I did talk about a metamind meaning an all pervasive awareness. I used it instead of "God" as the materialists/skeptics there insisted in defining "God" in the most ludicrous manner possible i.e basically as an old man in the sky.

But every since I've used the term Paul just keeps dropping it into the conversation no matter what I'm talking about. He's been doing it for years and years and years!

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

Originally Posted by Open Mind

Paul, sorry about that. I did not mean it in the common useage sense of worshipping material things.

Oh, I understand that. I still don't like it. Maybe I'm an idealist who just doesn't believe in a metamind.

Edited to add: The problem with calling me a materialist is that you have some conception of what that means that may not fit what I actually think. Better to avoid the loaded terms.

~~ Paul

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

Originally Posted by Interesting Ian

Why do you keep banging on about a metamind Paul? What is it, and what has it got to do with anything??

The metamind is the thing that broadcasts our consciousnesses, the ones we pick up on the receivers in our brain. It's also the thing that mediates psi. Is there a better term for it?

But every since I've used the term Paul just keeps dropping it into the conversation no matter what I'm talking about. He's been doing it for years and years and years!

It's a great term, Ian! What's the correct term?

~~ Paul

[mszlazak]

Originally Posted by Tor

davidsmith73 answered that one for me

When it comes to Stapp, I've already said what I think about this so I'm not going to repeat it. I do think there are good reasons to take his work seriously.
From what you have said throughout this forum, it seems to me that you truly believe that consciousness is an illusion, a nonexistent fantasy. To me consciousness is beyond logic.

David Smith didn't provide any answer for you. Also, you want to have it both ways, one contradicting the other. First Smith and Stapp provide answers for you then you say that consciousness is beyond logic.

Originally Posted by Tor

Why does it tell us that? What you are talking about is one perspective, nothing more.

Same reason I go to a M.D. when I'm sick and not to a quantum physicist.

---------------

[Tor]

Originally Posted by mszlazak

David Smith didn't provide any answer for you. Also, you want to have it both ways, one contradicting the other. First Smith and Stapp provide answers for you then you say that consciousness is beyond logic.

The fact that my consciousness is real, not some illusion, is beyond logic. But what it does is not.

Originally Posted by mszlazak

Same reason I go to a M.D. when I'm sick and not to a quantum physicist.

If consciousness is encountered at the quantum level, then surly it is relevant to ask a quantum physicist. But I'd rather that all fields work together to broaden our understanding. And as I said before, the other fields need to update their view of what physics is today, not just ignore QT as insignificant.

As an example of interdisciplinary biology work that actually does take quantum physics seriously, check out this abstract from Nature about quantum coherence in photosynthetic systems. This isn't about consciousness, but it shows that the usual objections against those that think QM effects in biology are important are misguided.

[Interesting Ian]

Originally Posted by Paul C. Anagnostopoulos

The metamind is the thing that broadcasts our consciousnesses, the ones we pick up on the receivers in our brain. It's also the thing that mediates psi. Is there a better term for it?

You're so mechanistic in your thought processes. Transmits consciousness?? Dear me!

It's a great term, Ian! What's the correct term?

~~ Paul

I don't believe anything broadcasts or transmits consciousness. You're taking the analogy of the TV set too far.

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

Originally Posted by Ian

I don't believe anything broadcasts or transmits consciousness. You're taking the analogy of the TV set too far.

Where does my consciousness go after I die? What mediates psi? What database am I consulting when I remote view something? What does the Hindu term akashic record refer to?

~~ Paul