mediumship study

[Mike]

Originally Posted by Paul C. Anagnostopoulos

How can the medium even connect with the sitter if he doesn't know who the sitter is?

Well, years ago investigators like Richard Hodgson and others frequently used "proxy sitters." In these cases the real "sitter" would not even be present at the seance and a stranger would be brought in to sit in the presence of the medium. This "proxy" would not know the real sitter and thus would have no way of knowing whether the medium is giving accurate information. After the seance, the real sitter would be given a transcript of the seance to evaluate.

So the question is, assuming for a moment that the medium actually did connect both with the real sitter and a deceased acquaintance of his/hers, how did that happen when the sitter wasn't even in the presence of the medium? I don't know. But I would assume that some people would probably believe that our deceased loved ones are to some extent aware of us and our intentions and would be in some cases aware that the test was going to be performed. They would then communicate through the medium relevant information for the real sitter. On the other hand, those who believe in "super psi" would probably say that the investigator knows who the real sitter is, and that that is enough for the subconscious mind of the medium to, through psi, link up with relevant information without spirits having to be involved at all.

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

Originally Posted by Mike

So the question is, assuming for a moment that the medium actually did connect both with the real sitter and a deceased acquaintance of his/hers, how did that happen when the sitter wasn't even in the presence of the medium? I don't know. But I would assume that some people would probably believe that our deceased loved ones are to some extent aware of us and our intentions and would be in some cases aware that the test was going to be performed. They would then communicate through the medium relevant information for the real sitter. On the other hand, those who believe in "super psi" would probably say that the investigator knows who the real sitter is, and that that is enough for the subconscious mind of the medium to, through psi, link up with relevant information without spirits having to be involved at all.

Oh, the things we have to buy into to get this to work!

If this is the case, there is no reason for a proxy sitter at all.

~~ Paul

[Mike]

Originally Posted by Paul C. Anagnostopoulos

If this is the case, there is no reason for a proxy sitter at all.

I certainly see your point. I guess, though, that someone (probably the investigator) would have to know who the sitter is supposed to be. (Otherwise, any random spirit who was wandering by might decide to take the oportunity to communicate through the medium during the test!)

Do you think that the it might be that the earlier investigators might have used proxy sitters just to conform to the traditional "trappings" of holding seances, in which there was always a medium and one or more sitters?

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

Originally Posted by Mike

I certainly see your point. I guess, though, that someone (probably the investigator) would have to know who the sitter is supposed to be. (Otherwise, any random spirit who was wandering by might decide to take the oportunity to communicate through the medium during the test!)

You mean all the spirits strolling by query the mind of the experimenter and then politely refrain from fooling with the medium? Does this work if the experimenter is sitting somewhere else, so it's not obvious he's associated with the medium? What if a spirit doesn't understand English?

Do you think that the it might be that the earlier investigators might have used proxy sitters just to conform to the traditional "trappings" of holding seances, in which there was always a medium and one or more sitters?

Yes, that is certainly possible.

~~ Paul

[Mike]

Originally Posted by Paul C. Anagnostopoulos

You mean all the spirits strolling by query the mind of the experimenter and then politely refrain from fooling with the medium? Does this work if the experimenter is sitting somewhere else, so it's not obvious he's associated with the medium? What if a spirit doesn't understand English?

Maybe the spirit who is supposed to be communicating tells the other spirits who are strolling by in no uncertain terms that they are not to fool with the medium during the test! Seriously, though, I think these are good questions that you raise. I don't have any ideas as to the answers. By the way, getting down to bare bones, what do you think is being tested for (or should be being tested for) during a mediumship test, and what is the most appropriate protocol for testing this? From the stanpoint of believers in mediumship, the claim to fame of mediums is that they relay or in some way facilitate the relaying of communications from the dead. Is this what we should be testing for?

[anonymous]

Originally Posted by joki

I think that G.S. studies are not bad, but still do not completely rule out cold reading.

GS is Gary Schwartz? There is no way his studies can be explained by cold reading. He did double and triple blind studies. The mediums never spoke to or saw the sitters who were removed by one or two telephone converstations and the sitters had to correctly identify their own readings from control readings (readings for a different sitter). This is explained very clearly in his book "The Truth About Medium"

There is no way this can be explained by cold reading.

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

Originally Posted by Mike

By the way, getting down to bare bones, what do you think is being tested for (or should be being tested for) during a mediumship test, and what is the most appropriate protocol for testing this? From the stanpoint of believers in mediumship, the claim to fame of mediums is that they relay or in some way facilitate the relaying of communications from the dead. Is this what we should be testing for?

I don't really know what we should test until someone proposes a theory of dead people. Where is my memory? Where does it go upon my death? How is it maintained in a coherent fashion? How does it travel? Can it interact with the material world? Until there is a theory, how can we come up with hypotheses to test?

Now, if someone is just going to claim that they know that dead people are floating about, mumbling vapid single-letter chit-chat with the likes of John Edward, then here's my experiment:

Tell me my grandfather's full name and how he died. Period, full stop.

~~ Paul

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

Originally Posted by Anonymous

GS is Gary Schwartz? There is no way his studies can be explained by cold reading. He did double and triple blind studies. The mediums never spoke to or saw the sitters who were removed by one or two telephone converstations and the sitters had to correctly identify their own readings from control readings (readings for a different sitter). This is explained very clearly in his book "The Truth About Medium"

Please tell me you are not referring to the Afterlife experiments. They are the most ridiculous mediumship experiments performed in the past 50 years.

~~ Paul

[Mike]

Originally Posted by Paul C. Anagnostopoulos

Now, if someone is just going to claim that they know that dead people are floating about, mumbling vapid single-letter chit-chat with the likes of John Edward, then here's my experiment:

Tell me my grandfather's full name and how he died. Period, full stop.

If a medium told you this, would you feel that it was confirmation of the hypothesis that your grandfather had survied death and was able to communicate with you through a medium? (It seems like that is the hypothesis you are proposing to test here -- that dead people are floating about, etc.)

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

Originally Posted by Mike

If a medium told you this, would you feel that it was confirmation of the hypothesis that your grandfather had survied death and was able to communicate with you through a medium? (It seems like that is the hypothesis you are proposing to test here -- that dead people are floating about, etc.)

Either that or the medium did some damn good research before sitting with me. But I'd be a lot less likely to sneer at the whole thing than I am now.

Even better would be direct evidence that dead people are floating about.

~~ Paul