The definitive psi wheel thread

[bishop]

This topic may have been done to death, but as long as it keeps coming up on the forum I think it's worth discussing.

The psi wheel seems a good launching point for proponents and non proponents to hash out their differences, due to the very simple and elegant nature of the PW, and what is being claimed; telekinesis can so clearly and consistently be demonstrated by use of the device. I would also like to invite anyone here to discuss their own personal experiences, which would be immensely beneficial.

What do people think about psi wheel demonstrations and their implications?

[vikki]

Sandy, what are thinking about when you are 'pushing' the wheel? Are you focussed on that specifically?

[bishop]

Originally Posted by Sandy B

Thanks, Bishop. I appreciate you moving the discussion out of Andy's thread.

I don't have a lot of time to comment right now, but I will post a few links to videos I've made. I'll start by saying videos in and of themselves are NOT evidential. I think that's a no-brainer, but it sometimes need to be said.

Sandstone's Quarry: Rosie, you're alright!
Sandstone's Quarry: Let's try that again!
Sandstone's Quarry: So let's have a closer look at this, OK?

Thanks Sandy! That's a great starting point for discussion, and glad you're willing to share.

[Open Minded Atheist]

Originally Posted by bishop

This topic may have been done to death, but as long as it keeps coming up on the forum I think it's worth discussing.

The psi wheel seems a good launching point for proponents and non proponents to hash out their differences, due to the very simple and elegant nature of the PW, and what is being claimed; telekinesis can so clearly and consistently be demonstrated by use of the device. I would also like to invite anyone here to discuss their own personal experiences, which would be immensely beneficial.

Where do people think about psi wheel demonstrations and their implications?

I have honestly not had any good personal experiences, i have had a few synchronistic experiences, like thinking about a song and hearing it on the radio, or thinking about someone and seeing them a few hours later, other than that not much, i don't pray anymore because most of my prayers have not been answered, but i do pray when i am feeling claustrophobic or when walking alone and suddenly coming in contact with a wild dog.
I sincerely hope Death is not the end, I guess the only way to find out for sure is through Quantum Consciousness, that's why we should support the work of Dr.Stuart Hammerof.

[Arouet]

This video doesn't look at psi-wheels under glass, but should form part of this discussion.

Derren Brown Science of Scams - Psi Wheel - YouTube

[OC68]

Originally Posted by Arouet

This video doesn't look at psi-wheels under glass, but should form part of this discussion.

Derren Brown Science of Scams - Psi Wheel - YouTube

Thanks. That's an interesting vid, though I'm almost certain Sandy isn't immersing her hands in a bucket of hot water beforehand. I know they say the person doesn't have to do that with the water, which of course brings up the question, then why didn't they have the person do it without warming their hands first? Anyway, as you point out, Sandy is doing this under glass. Here's part of a post from the JREF:

4. I tried the paper under glass demonstration on a surface that was rough enough to allow some air currents to pass under the glass. I had the least success at causing an effect similar to the one in the videos with this. I could definitely cause some fluttering and occasionally a little rotation with very small air currents but I was far from demonstrating a significant spin.

Sandy screws the glass top onto the base. I would think that would significantly diminish the chance of air currents.
Based on the explanations given here:
Is there some "psi-wheel debunking for dummies" I could use? - JREF Forum
and especially here:
forgetomori Psychic powers: video proof?
I think most skeptics would conclude our beloved Sandy, someone who has shown herself to be as honest as the day is long, has concocted a hoax. Is that what you, really, and Paul would say? Are you accusing Sandy of being a cheat? Just kidding. I know you don't like to comment on personal experiences- perhaps Paul or really will offer a clear explanation as to what they think is going on.

[bishop]

Originally Posted by Open Minded Atheist

I have honestly not had any good personal experiences, i have had a few synchronistic experiences, like thinking about a song and hearing it on the radio, or thinking about someone and seeing them a few hours later, other than that not much, i don't pray anymore because most of my prayers have not been answered, but i do pray when i am feeling claustrophobic or when walking alone and suddenly coming in contact with a wild dog.
I sincerely hope Death is not the end, I guess the only way to find out for sure is through Quantum Consciousness, that's why we should support the work of Dr.Stuart Hammerof.

My experiences have also been few and far between, but I'm open to how I may increase their likelihood. What are your thoughts/theories on the psi wheel as an indicator of telekinesis?

[Open Minded Atheist]

Originally Posted by bishop

My experiences have also been few and far between, but I'm open to how I may increase their likelihood. What are your thoughts/theories on the psi wheel as an indicator of telekinesis?

Thank you Bishop, i am not too familiar with the psi wheel i must watch the video shortly but like i mentioned earlier it is important to get a professional magician to have a look at it. In any case even if Telekinesis exists we would only be interested in it as long as it gives some indication of consciousness being non local and the possibility of an afterlife.

[bishop]

Originally Posted by Arouet

This video doesn't look at psi-wheels under glass, but should form part of this discussion.

Derren Brown Science of Scams - Psi Wheel - YouTube

It is clear that currents of air and heat do impact psi wheels. I think what is infinitely more interesting are Sandy B's videos of the PW in the jar. There is an undeniable relationship between the movement of her fingers and the wheel that is fascinating.

[Arouet]

Originally Posted by Sandy B

Convection currents don't explain the instances when a jar is used. I've tried placing very hot coffee cups filled with water from a boiling kettle around the jar. That's much hotter than my hand could possible be. The wheel didn't spin. The other thing about convection currents is that they start off slowly, gradually get up to speed, and you don't typically get sudden changes in direction.

Yeah, from time to time I've looked for a good scientific explanation of the psi wheel under glass. I've seen some threads on it but nothing of the quality of the Brown video about the psi wheel without glass. I have seen comments that the hands will heat up the glass too. I haven't looked at Sandy's links yet, so not sure if hers always involve hand placement.

Originally Posted by OC68

I think most skeptics would conclude our beloved Sandy, someone who has shown herself to be as honest as the day is long, has concocted a hoax. Is that what you, really, and Paul would say? Are you accusing Sandy of being a cheat? Just kidding. I know you don't like to comment on personal experiences- perhaps Paul or really will offer a clear explanation as to what they think is going on.

No, I don't believe Sandy is hoaxing (although there are some well known hoaxes out there). I suspect there are perfectly good reasons based on physics to explain what is happening, as physics can explain it without the jar.