Parapsychology and alternative medicine forum

Part of parapsychology articles and blog site


Go Back   Parapsychology and alternative medicine forums of mind-energy.net > Skeptiko podcast forums > Skeptiko Podcast

Skeptiko Podcast The Official discussions forum of skeptiko.com podcast


User Infomation

Latest Threads
- by Arouet
- by Ninshub
- by jt512
- by sk9
- by sbu

Advertisement

Partner Links

 
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-31-2012, 05:51 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,109
Default Are skeptics justified when they hoax researchers and the public?

"While it doesn’t feel good to make someone look like a fool to their colleagues and the public, it can be useful to use such theatrical tactics to get your message across when other less dramatic methods are ignored."

Friend of the show Ben Radford states, "I think that hoaxing to make a point might be useful in some cases, but people don’t like to be made fools of.”

Skeptic Karen Stollznow mentions the Project Alpha and Carlos hoaxes, "describing them as “social experiments” which “reveal human behavior under natural conditions.” She also reminds us that these orchestrated hoaxes were not intended for personal gain but ultimately for the public good, to prompt critical thinking."

The author concludes:
"Skeptical hoaxers have repeatedly remarked how sad or disappointed they were that the hoaxee did not discover the ruse! Had the hoaxers been caught, it would have been some vindication that the hoaxed party was not nearly as naïve and credulous as was assumed. Ultimately, the skeptical hoax culminates in the act of exposing the game. That is a key to concluding that these skeptic hoaxes are appreciably different than other kinds of hoaxes."

The Deliberate Skeptical Hoax | Doubtful Newsblog

I've got to say, Randi and other skeptics never seem too sad to me when they recount their exploits. In fact, they seem to take great joy in letting folks know how naive their victims were. I wonder if some skeptics have a deep need to let people know how intellectually superior they are to the "believers".

Last edited by OC68; 01-31-2012 at 05:53 PM.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links - register to remove ads
  #2  
Old 01-31-2012, 05:57 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,654
Send a message via Skype™ to GabeDupuis
Default

Skeptority Complex?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-31-2012, 05:59 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,654
Send a message via Skype™ to GabeDupuis
Default

But, yeah, I see that too, when someone I know messes around with people who aren't as smart as them or religious. Honestly, he appears to like it more when they don't figure it out... It's kind of twisted in a way...
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-31-2012, 06:17 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 13,070
Default

How about Sokal? Was that justified?

~~ Paul
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-31-2012, 06:18 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 684
Default

Whilst you get the unfortunate side-effect of gloating skeptics (if this actually happens), they are pretty good at highlighting that people have difficulty in reporting evidence when it confirms their hypothesis. Of course this has to be taken on a case-by-case basis.

One problem I do have is when the investigator that is being hoaxed has good grounds to claim that the evidence suggests their hypothesis is correct. If the evidence shows absolutely no sign of foul-play then is the evidence then just evidence? For example, if someone invented a flying saucer with anti-gravity engine (or something) and landed on a farmer's field to suggest there are extraterrestrials. That anti-gravity somethings have no existence beyond the hoaxer would probably justify the farmer's guess that the flying saucer might have been an extra-terrestrial.

Surely a successful hoax is for the hoaxers to suck people in by highlighting that the claimants have willfully/neglectfully ignored signs that a hoax is taking place in order to get positive results?

So all in all I think they are beneficial, but there are circumstances when I think that they could be abused.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-31-2012, 06:39 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: SF Peninsula, CA
Posts: 2,093
Default

Hoaxing is rare and unanticipated, especially when a motive for hoaxing isn't at all clear. In real life, people don't go around hoaxing each other to prove a skeptical point.

In fact, it can be damaging by introducing unwanted noise into an investigation of an unexplained phenomena. We're better off without them.

The Randi MDC is an ongoing hoax on skeptics by a skeptic btw. It's pretend science intended to fool skeptics. (It doesn't fool anyone else.)

In the end, it's all noise complicating real investigations.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-31-2012, 06:55 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 13,070
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Weiler
In real life, people don't go around hoaxing each other to prove a skeptical point.
They don't? People hoax one another all the time. Which ones are proving a skeptical point and which ones not?

Top 10 Famous Hoaxes

Top 10 Most Famous UFO Hoaxes

Top 10 Scientific Frauds and Hoaxes

List of hoaxes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Top 100 April Fool's Day Hoaxes Of All Time

Top 10 Famous People Who Didn?t Actually Exist | Top 10 Lists | TopTenz.net

10 Most Famous Doctored Photos - Oddee.com (famous photographs, fake photos...)

And that doesn't even include all the Internet hoaxes.

~~ Paul
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-31-2012, 06:59 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,109
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Weiler View Post
The Randi MDC is an ongoing hoax on skeptics by a skeptic btw. It's pretend science intended to fool skeptics. (It doesn't fool anyone else.)
I agree with much of what you said but disagree when you say the MDC doesn't fool anyone else. I wish that were the case. But I know a number of people who've told me they like Randi and consider the MDC to be a legitimate scientific challenge- and I'm talking about people who believe in the paranormal. When Randi was on tv, he'd often be presented as the voice of reason and as a truth seeker. Given that, why wouldn't much of the audience think he and his challenge are credible?
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-31-2012, 07:15 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,461
Default They do show a couple good points though -

1) That the type of ‘evidence’ that is being judged can be created without paranormal methods – sometimes with very simple methods.

2) That some of these ‘experts’ don’t know what questions to ask. Not just “Are you faking this?” Often they lack the background in the subjects that would relate to the topics that would let them see the hoax for what it was.

3) Some of the ‘evidence’ out there is faked. If the experts can’t figure out it is a hoax what does that say about the rest of the evidence they claim is ‘real’.

4) We can all be fooled. Our brains do it to us all the time (every optical illusion for example). When we think that we can not be fooled or think that no one would try to fool us is when we can be made to look a fool.

5) That the type of ‘evidence’ that is being judged can be created without paranormal methods – sometimes with very simple methods.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-31-2012, 09:00 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,106
Default

The Sokal hoax missed the mark badly as philosopher of science David Miller points out and by doing so just reinforced relativism of knowledge, irrationality and mistrust of science.

http://www2.warwick.ac.uk/fac/soc/ph...ller_pli_9.pdf

Hoaxes are really deceptions and hoaxes by incompetent people just backfire. That's also why many criminals get caught.

Last edited by mszlazak; 02-01-2012 at 01:23 AM.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links - register to remove ads
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:14 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2013, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.1

Ad Management by RedTyger