Ndes as Lucid Dreams

[TheSurvivalIndex]

Originally Posted by Iyace

Am I the only one who's confused about the logic in this assumption? The researchers trained people to have lucid dreams that mimic the features of the nde, so they did, and now ndes are only lucid dreams?

Is There Life After Death? | Does Heaven Exist? | What Happens When You Die? | LiveScience

The article was written by someone who doesn't know much about near-death experiences, to a bunch of readers who also don't know much about near-death experiences. Nor can such an audience be bothered with the details. People blind from birth who do not dream visually have visual near death experiences. The article says that the same brain mechanisms are involved, however we don't even know what these brain mechanisms of consciousness are to begin with (not to mention that there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that this is true), nor do we know how a person with a very messed up brain could have the same brain physiology as someone dreaming and asleep. Anyone who reads a lot of near-death experience accounts will quickly see the differences. What we have here is a form of institutionalized scientism, that seems to be deeply ingrained in any discussion of the near-death experience when the word “science" is involved.

[anonymous]

This research does not provide any evidence for a materialist explanation of NDEs.

The investigator has prior beliefs that OBEs are not objective, and the author of the article may disbelieve psi in general. The article creates the implication that the experiences are lucid dreams by citing prior research in lucid dreams but the experiment about contact with the dead involve OBEs. Skeptical readers easily accept the premise that the explanation for NDEs is materialist. But also believers are also led along the same path of deception. In fact the research on contacting the dead during an OBE provides no evidence of a material explanation for NDEs. It is equally valid to interpret the results as supporting Survival.

No one understands what consciousness is. When separate from the body, or during altered states of brain function, the mind may act in ways we do not understand. Most spiritual traditions I am aware of say that outside the body, reality is subjective, thoughts create reality. Lucid dreams may be dreams of the spirit rather than dreams of the physical brain.

In contrast to lucid dreams where a person consciously controls the dream, during the NDE the subjects do not look for a tunnel, a white light, or spirts of the dead. During NDE's the subjects are mostly passive as these phenomena occur.

So, not only does the reasearch in the article make misleading assumptions about the experiments it discusses by implying the results are dreams, it also makes unwarranted assumptions about what lucid dreams are, and makes a false comparison between lucid dreams and NDE's.

This is a typical skeptical hit job. Dont fall for it.

[Roms]

Originally Posted by anonymous

This is a typical skeptical hit job. Dont fall for it.

Too late. Sniffy has already copied and pasted the link in other forums

[Nemo85]

Originally Posted by Iyace

Am I the only one who's confused about the logic in this assumption? The researchers trained people to have lucid dreams that mimic the features of the nde, so they did, and now ndes are only lucid dreams?

Is There Life After Death? | Does Heaven Exist? | What Happens When You Die? | LiveScience

See also: Terry the Censor: Mass Alien Abduction Experiment in Los Angeles

(THE ANOMALIST: World News on UFOs, Bigfoot, the Paranormal, and Other Mysteries at the Edge of Science highlighted this)