Reincarnation is NOT Wishful Thinking...

[metaphysics101]

I was talking to a friend of mind over the weekend who's a an athiest and he thinks that Reincarnation is just wishful thinking on the believer's part. I explained to him that I definately don't think it's wishful thinking at least on my part.

Face it, living is hard work and can be flat out hell sometimes!!!....I have no desire to repeat this type of experience.... I would rather have everything just go black. Just think, no more worries, no more stress, just nothing....

Plus, if you are reincarnated, then it's not as if you are going to remember your previous existence anyway. So why would it matter?

And if you think about it, if you are truly dead when you are dead, and everything is black, then there will be nothing that you will be conscious of missing.... You can't miss anything if everything is black. Sounds kinda peaceful to me...


Now for those that believe in Heaven, I can understand how more of wishful thinking plays into it. Because the belief in heaven states that you'll be with all of your loved ones again in a happy beautiful place. Now I don't subscribe to that thought, as I think that if there is an afterlife, they have better things to do that wait for you to get there, but that's just my opinion, and at the same time, I can understand and respect if people don't agree.

[Craig Weiler]

Originally Posted by metaphysics101

I was talking to a friend of mind over the weekend who's a an athiest and he thinks that Reincarnation is just wishful thinking on the believer's part. I explained to him that I definately don't think it's wishful thinking at least on my part.

Face it, living is hard work and can be flat out hell sometimes!!!....I have no desire to repeat this type of experience.... I would rather have everything just go black. Just think, no more worries, no more stress, just nothing....

Plus, if you are reincarnated, then it's not as if you are going to remember your previous existence anyway. So why would it matter?

And if you think about it, if you are truly dead when you are dead, and everything is black, then there will be nothing that you will be conscious of missing.... You can't miss anything if everything is black. Sounds kinda peaceful to me...


Now for those that believe in Heaven, I can understand how more of wishful thinking plays into it. Because the belief in heaven states that you'll be with all of your loved ones again in a happy beautiful place. Now I don't subscribe to that thought, as I think that if there is an afterlife, they have better things to do that wait for you to get there, but that's just my opinion, and at the same time, I can understand and respect if people don't agree.

That's it. Reincarnation and any life after death means that there is no free ride. Either learn and grow now, or deal with it later. No escape.

[eveshi]

Originally Posted by metaphysics101

Plus, if you are reincarnated, then it's not as if you are going to remember your previous existence anyway. So why would it matter?

Because it would still be you who would be subject to the experiences in your future life, even if you would have no memories of your former existence. You would not be annihilated, but merely lose (the access to?) your memories and start a fresh life.

[paqart]

Originally Posted by eveshi

Because it would still be you who would be subject to the experiences in your future life, even if you would have no memories of your former existence. You would not be annihilated, but merely lose (the access to?) your memories and start a fresh life.

As I understand it, you only lose the memory of other physical incarnations while you are conscious within one of those incarnations, and then only if you are not developed enough spiritually to have access to those memories. While unconscious we would have much greater access to these memories, and after being relieved of our physical body, full memory would be restored. The word "restored" may be incorrect however, because my impression is not that we "lose" the memories, but that they are intentionally blocked, or we accept the limitation of not thinking upon them. This restriction is either lifted with experience, or we are less confused by the appearance of the physical environment around us as we progress spiritually. The result is a thinning of the veil that interferes with past life memories, until it is gone.

AP

[anonymous]

Originally Posted by Craig Weiler

That's it. Reincarnation and any life after death means that there is no free ride. Either learn and grow now, or deal with it later. No escape.

I totally agree.

Materialism is wishful thinking. After you die you have no more problems, no more struggles, no more pain, no more suffering.

You have to be emotionally resilient to accept spirituality because it entails an eternity of growth, ie an eternity of solving problems, ie. an eternity of problems.

[anonymous]

Originally Posted by anonymous

I totally agree.

Materialism is wishful thinking. After you die you have no more problems, no more struggles, no more pain, no more suffering.

You have to be emotionally resilient to accept spirituality because it entails an eternity of growth, ie an eternity of solving problems, ie. an eternity of problems.

And under materialism you can do any selfish thing you want and hope to get away with it. While spirituality entails you will experience the negative consequences of bad actions.

[paqart]

Originally Posted by anonymous

And under materialism you can do any selfish thing you want and hope to get away with it. While spirituality entails you will experience the negative consequences of bad actions.

When I "was a materialist" (a long time ago), I would have disagreed with this distinction, although it matches the way it often looks to me now. This is one of the central defining differences between the two paradigms, yet I doubt it looks that way to a materialist.

Looking back on my thoughts from that time, I remember thinking that the non-materialist ideas I heard simply didn't make sense. I did not consider myself some kind of hedonist, though my interest in money, more appropriately described as outright greed at the time, certainly had negative moral connotations. However, with the positive examples of Uncle Scrooge from family-friendly Walt Disney, and successful titans of business, this did not seem completely immoral to me. I was aware that others thought that greed was immoral, but my materialistic worldview allowed me to look at it as practical self-interest, without any attached moral imperatives.

Beyond that one issue, I considered myself to be not just a highly moral specimen, but outstandingly so--particularly in comparison to friends and others I knew who were religious. I saw what looked to me as them failing to abide by their commandments, while I abided by all of them without paying any attention to moral behavior as a religious obligation. Ironically, the behavior of religious friends, and their hypocrisy, or at least what I regarded as such, was an excellent reason to maintain my materialist position. Indeed, it was also advantageous, because I found that certain dogmatic rules that were adhered to by others could be exploited to my benefit, for instance when haggling over prices.

Thankfully, that stage of my spiritual growth is over and I am no longer motivated by the same things. Although I cannot say that I was aware of the lack of a moral component in atheism as a reason to accept an atheistic materialistic version of reality, it is true that there is a strong moral component to a non-materialistic worldview. Whether this is understood or not, it is there, and I have a hard time believing that it doesn't influence behavior, even if this influence doesn't rise to the level of conscious awareness.

AP

[MLCC]

Well, you can't get away from your conscience, your self judgement. Moral doesn't need to be rooted in punishment/reward.
I wouldn't say survival after death is the best foundation for moral, although it can serve such purpose. In my understanding, empathy is. The more capacity for empathy you have, the stronger and genuine will be your moral.
Of course survival with an hypothesis for justice (divine or other) scares the shit out of many people, especially those who lead their life just trying not to be caught.

[Arouet]

Right, the mere existence of a spiritual world does not necessarily indicate that our actions here have any kind of eternal ramifications.

For example, if this world is the equivalent of Grand Theft Auto - or some other kind of entertainment for eternal souls (for want of a better word) then there may be no ramifications. Morally, it might be like those games where you can play as good, bad, or morally ambiguous/neutral. Reincarnation could be like different play throughs.

It's a possibility. We would need more reliable information to determine which way it is.

[EthanT]

Originally Posted by anonymous

I totally agree.

Materialism is wishful thinking. After you die you have no more problems, no more struggles, no more pain, no more suffering.

You have to be emotionally resilient to accept spirituality because it entails an eternity of growth, ie an eternity of solving problems, ie. an eternity of problems.

Yep, I've had a cpl atheists say to me something along the lines, "But if I accepted the existence of God, that would require responsibility, it would require change, and I'm not ready for that"