Placebo not so mental after all?

[Arouet]

Interesting article about how the pain relief from placebos is often due to the body producing its own opiods and other endogenous (made by the body) pain killers:

Part of placebo effect ascribed to cannabinoids | Ars Technica

Neuroskeptic: Placebos And The Brain's Own Pot

http://www.nature.com/nm/journal/v17...l/nm.2435.html

[MLCC]

Well, that was known already. The thing is that the placebo effect goes well beyond pain killers.
It's a bit of a mystery. Quite unsettling really. I would suggest a search for Psychoneuroimmunology and move from there. You'll find very interesting material.

[EthanT]

Originally Posted by MLCC

Well, that was known already. The thing is that the placebo effect goes well beyond pain killers.
It's a bit of a mystery. Quite unsettling really. I would suggest a search for Psychoneuroimmunology and move from there. You'll find very interesting material.

And, as the name "Psychoneuroimmunology" implies, it's about a mind/body interaction. I don't think most folks think the Placebo effect is purely mental, do they? So, the results don't sound that surprising from the titles, but I'll have to read more later

[EthanT]

I always thought it was funny that it's been common knowledge for decades that walking around angry/stressed increases your chance of having a heart attack, but extrapolating to the idea that perhaps mental states can effect overall health is such a huge leap.

[Arouet]

I've understood that the mental can affect the physical in the brain/body, but I must admit that I had thought the placebo effect was much more purely psychological. I didn't realise just how chemical it was - at least where it comes to pain relief.

[Scott]

Originally Posted by Arouet

Interesting article about how the pain relief from placebos is often due to the body producing its own opiods and other endogenous (made by the body) pain killers:

Part of placebo effect ascribed to cannabinoids | Ars Technica

Neuroskeptic: Placebos And The Brain's Own Pot

http://www.nature.com/nm/journal/v17...l/nm.2435.html

Pain is also a very subjective thing. This makes it difficult to study and more prone to issues of expectations.

You can compare it to many other sensations that have high levels of adaptation/habituation (smell, temperature sensation, pressure). Smell is one that you quickly adjust to. Placing really cold hand or feet in even slightly warm water will feel like burning. You don't feel your socks, well, now you do.

[P.Blah]

Originally Posted by Scott

You don't feel your socks, well, now you do.

They're itchy now. I hate you. :P

[Scott]

There are also two different uses of the word 'placebo'.
1 - The brain/mind producing an effect matching expectations/desires.
2 - The protocol used to isolate the effect of what you want to study. This also used to refer to just the fake 'pill' - You do need something so that the subject and researchers do not know what treatment group the subject is in - but that is so that there are as few differences between the groups as possible. They both go through the same process, encounter the same perceptions, ...

Placebo is all the rest of the treatment involved beside the active agent/s.
The simple thing that you are in a study doing XYZ can and does change many other things you do - Some are not at an obvious or conscious level.
I love reading the weight loss testimonials. I followed this treatment "and didn't change anything else" and lost 40 pounds. The simple thing of keeping calories and/or activity consistent is a very complicated process. If you look at the steps that have to be done in careful studies (they involve having people live in metabolic chambers so they actually can measure how many calories they burn, have meals carefully prepared - not only what goes on the plate, but what is not eaten is also weighed). But why trust the evidence that what a person recalls vs. reality -- I mean I must be calling them a fraud. (last part was sarcasm). I am not saying that 40 pounds were not lost, just not always for the reason the person thinks is the reason. Also why most people end up gaining it back.

[Scott]

Originally Posted by P.Blah

They're itchy now. I hate you. :P

Oh, I feel so hurt and offended. I might just have to tell you about the little critters that live in the follicles of your eyelashes - no, not that offended - but be warned. :-)

[Arouet]

Originally Posted by Scott

Pain is also a very subjective thing. This makes it difficult to study and more prone to issues of expectations.

That's how I thought of it too. But these studies seem to suggest that the placebo effect may at times be as a result of the body producing actual opiods and other pain killers (similar to marajuana). That would move it away from mere perception.