Tolerance

[Kamarling]

For quite a while now, I've just lurked here with only an occasional post. Initially, I had been keen to post my opinions but found that there seemed to be a noticable intransigence which made debate pointless. So I backed away and returned following a few threads that held my interest.

Today, I caught up on the thread concerning Dean Radin's double-slit experiment and was sidetracked by the experience of Johann in his attempts to discuss this on what seems to be a mainstream physics forum.

I then went over to have a look at that forum and was saddened by what I found. I mean, my idea of intransigence here fades to insignificance when compared to the attitudes expressed over there. For example, the following is a thread discussing NDE phenomena:

Near Death Experience: theoretical implications contingent upon validity of claim?

We are not investigating because as with all other NDE claims, it is purely anecdotal evidence and in the eyes of science - completely worthless.

and ...

Near-death experiences are hallucinations created by the brain due to hypoxia. It has been shown that pilots undergoing g-force stress training have similar experiences.

When others try to ask questions about why NDE phenomena are not being investigated and try to put forward the fact that these claims appear reasonable, they are dismissed with such arrogance (especially by a forum moderator calling herself "Evo"), I can't believe they actually persisted.

Now, my point is this: is this Skeptiko forum the only place on the internet where both sides get a reasonable hearing? That Physics Forum is not the only place to find such aggressive rejection of these subjects. JREF, the skeptical blogs and even the comments sections of online mainstream media such as the Guardian and Independent in the UK all carry examples of such vehement hostility.

What is it about these subjects that makes these people so nasty?

[David Bailey]

I think this is one of the best places to discuss the range of psi-related phenomena. This is only achieved as a result of considerable effort from Jacob, Alex, and Paqart.

When people hate others in this way, one has to suspect their psychological motives. I suspect that a lot of people sense that there will be another scientific upheaval that will upset their cherished beliefs.

David

[paqart]

Originally Posted by Kamarling

What is it about these subjects that makes these people so nasty?

I agree with you about other sites, and that is why I like to post here. However, part of the reason it is better is that we try to focus on parapsychology data related to research and experiences as opposed to talking about each other. This thread could easily go the wrong direction if we start identifying people in groups and discussing them that way, particularly if there are sore feelings on either side. I don't want to discourage you from posting, but would like to suggest that your question could be rephrased, something along the lines of, "what is it about psi that can be threatening?" Please feel free to correct that if you like, but I would prefer to maintain the peace here by thinking of each other as fellow forum members, rather than two implacably opposed groups.

AP

[Kamarling]

Originally Posted by paqart

Please feel free to correct that if you like, but I would prefer to maintain the peace here by thinking of each other as fellow forum members, rather than two implacably opposed groups.

AP

The reason I backed off previously was precisely because I thought that the opposing views were so entrenched that I would not expect to see any shift in worldview from any participant. If that opinion threatens the peace, then I should (and probably will) back off again.

Nevertheless, I like it that moderation is maintained and there is a reasonable amount of mutual respect. I don't see that elsewhere and would hate to disrupt that here. You are the moderator and I respect your input so, if it looks as though I have included a group of Skeptiko members within the term "nasty", then I withdraw that implication unreservedly.

[Arouet]

I've often said that Skeptiko plays a rather unique role on the net - not an easy thing to achieve given the explosion of the internet. I've given massive kudos to Alex for creating a podcast and environment where skeptics and proponents are invited to discuss these issues in a polite and respectful way and its why I'm always put so much pressure on Alex when it seems that he is veering from that path. Regardless of what you think about the ideas of the other side having a place like Skeptiko is a good thing and should be promoted!

[sbu]

It's not exactly physics that's being discussed here anyway - I don't see your problem with "Physics Forum" not wanting to go into discussion about near death experiences.

[Scott]

Originally Posted by sbu

It's not exactly physics that's being discussed here anyway - I don't see your problem with "Physics Forum" not wanting to go into discussion about near death experiences.

Well, other than they do have just about every other topic there, I get that complaint. If they did not allow, or very selectively allowed areas of parapsychology or areas labeled 'pseudoscience' then rejecting a discussion as they did would be fine. It is the lack of transparency of why that was rejected that is bothersome. IMO

[EthanT]

Originally Posted by sbu

It's not exactly physics that's being discussed here anyway - I don't see your problem with "Physics Forum" not wanting to go into discussion about near death experiences.

I see it a bit different. If somebody started discussing physics on this forum, we wouldn't label them crackpots for having an interest in physics, and we wouldn't label physics a field of "crackpottery".

But, that is what they do over there for anything psi related. Trust me, I've been thru the ringer with them a few times on that. The only reason I probably haven't been banned is I discuss a lot of mainstream physics, as well.

[Interesting Ian]

Originally Posted by Kamarling

For quite a while now, I've just lurked here with only an occasional post. Initially, I had been keen to post my opinions but found that there seemed to be a noticable intransigence which made debate pointless. So I backed away and returned following a few threads that held my interest.

Today, I caught up on the thread concerning Dean Radin's double-slit experiment and was sidetracked by the experience of Johann in his attempts to discuss this on what seems to be a mainstream physics forum.

I then went over to have a look at that forum and was saddened by what I found. I mean, my idea of intransigence here fades to insignificance when compared to the attitudes expressed over there. For example, the following is a thread discussing NDE phenomena:



When others try to ask questions about why NDE phenomena are not being investigated and try to put forward the fact that these claims appear reasonable, they are dismissed with such arrogance (especially by a forum moderator calling herself "Evo"), I can't believe they actually persisted.

Now, my point is this: is this Skeptiko forum the only place on the internet where both sides get a reasonable hearing? That Physics Forum is not the only place to find such aggressive rejection of these subjects. JREF, the skeptical blogs and even the comments sections of online mainstream media such as the Guardian and Independent in the UK all carry examples of such vehement hostility.

What is it about these subjects that makes these people so nasty?

Asked them a couple of questions and have just been banned for being a troll!

[robbiehouston]

I think David makes a great point. They sense the impending paradigm shift and they fear a loss of their cherished beliefs. If there is a higher order to things, they're no longer the gods of their own little universe. The majority of those people behave so childishly and in an intellectually immature manner. If the evidence for materialism were half as strong as they'd lead you to believe then why would they comport themselves thus?