Language and the Mind

[Carl Jung]

Wittgenstein was the first to make the point that language is not a transparent tool to be taken for granted.

Locke, Hume and even Plato had theories on language - but they were all kind of like Wittgensteins theory of language in his Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus. In this, the only book ever published in his life-time, Wittgenstein argued that language is a picture of reality - and thus stands quite outside ourselves.

In the Philosophical Investigations Wittgenstein completely changed course (which is quite strange seeing as he had won world wide fame with his Tractactus) and tried to show that language is internal and indeed the frame-work through which we know the world.

"The borders of my language are the borders of my world." - Ludwig Wittgenstein.

This rise of awareness around language is very specific to the 20th century - before everyone had taken language for granted. Now we can see that more than anything else, this conceptual tool (which we call language) is what makes a human human. Without being able to conceptualize something we can't understand or even fantasize about it - thus in order to be learned one must always practice language and try to expand it.

Imagine that I draw a triangle and then I point to one of the sides, and one of its points respectively, and say: "Now see this as base and this as apex". After a while I point at one of the other sides and say "Now see this as base and This as apex".

Nothing has changed but how we conceptualize the triangle - yet we experiences two completely different triangles. This is part of the magic of language - and how it sets borders to our knowledge.

Once we start to see language as being a biological adaptation we must also see the relation between the mind and language as being essential to evolution. From this stand-point we have a completely different conception of the mind than from within common scientific circles. Suddenly the mind has a job and a way to relate to the world - language enables us to know the world and studying it gives us a hint of the working of our minds.

Within the Wittgensteinan world-view the mind must be causal - and for it to be causal it must also be free. That is not true of any other object we know of, because no other object brings with it the subjective sensation of freedom and choice.

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

Originally Posted by Carl Jung

Once we start to see language as being a biological adaptation we must also see the relation between the mind and language as being essential to evolution. From this stand-point we have a completely different conception of the mind than from within common scientific circles. Suddenly the mind has a job and a way to relate to the world - language enables us to know the world and studying it gives us a hint of the working of our minds.

What are you trying to say here? In particular, you need to specify what you mean by mind, since we all have different ideas about what it is. You're comparing your undefined mind to the conception in science.

~~ Paul

[FallingLeaf]

I have to agree with Paul that I'm note entirely sure what you're exactly getting at but I won't insist on semantic tennis with definitions of 'mind'.

Are you saying there is no thought without language. Because this is an assertion that, though popular in many scientific circles in the 20th century, isn't plausible.

Also, you say: "This rise of awareness around language is very specific to the 20th century - before everyone had taken language for granted." I'm not entirely sure what you mean here but thinkers such as Vico and Rousseau had thought very carefully about language and certainly didn't take it for granted.

I do think there is something very interesting here but I think we might differ on the specifics.

[Carl Jung]

There are certainly thoughts without language or impressions anyway - but concepts do not exist without language. I'm not saying that language makes our world but all those ways in which we conceptualize it are basically different shapes and uses of language. Before LW language was merely the description of our world through noises - after LW the tool-set that is our lingustics is not a passive by-stander but a shaper of our experiences. How we see the world depends on our language to some degree.

[Carl Jung]

Originally Posted by Paul C. Anagnostopoulos

What are you trying to say here? In particular, you need to specify what you mean by mind, since we all have different ideas about what it is. You're comparing your undefined mind to the conception in science.

~~ Paul

There is no defintion of mind in science. The best I can of is mind being that thing we lose while unconscious or in deep sleep.

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

Originally Posted by Carl Jung

There is no defintion of mind in science. The best I can of is mind being that thing we lose while unconscious or in deep sleep.

Oh, okay. You said we had a different conceptualization of mind than in science, which implied science has one.

I agree that science has no need for the concept of mind. Neither do I, except to say that it is a bunch of brain functions.

~~ Paul

[gabriel]

Originally Posted by Carl Jung

There are certainly thoughts without language or impressions anyway - but concepts do not exist without language. I'm not saying that language makes our world but all those ways in which we conceptualize it are basically different shapes and uses of language. Before LW language was merely the description of our world through noises - after LW the tool-set that is our lingustics is not a passive by-stander but a shaper of our experiences. How we see the world depends on our language to some degree.

Not sure about that. Language describes aspects of the world but the world is not limited to language. Language covers nuance and emotional response as well as facts. Someone with a limited vocabulary or illiteracy is not restricted in their experience of the world.

A poet may, indeed does conjure a complete diegetic world the reader/listener understands and buys into with only limited reference to an external reality.

[Sock]

You might find this podcast interesting: Words - Radiolab

As I recall, they discuss at one point how language is the thing that enables our conscious minds to put different pieces of information together to form inferences. Pretty interesting topic. Alan Watts had lots to say on the subject as well.

[sbu]

What's the mind language of people born totally deaf?

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

Originally Posted by sbu

What's the mind language of people born totally deaf?

Images, perhaps.

~~ Paul