Research Idea?

[LEECOL]

For the past couple of years an idea has been bouncing around my head. The germ of an idea concerns the experiential qualitative differences between NDE , Hypnogogic/ hypnopampic and lucid dream experiences. Nothing new you may well assert, however one of the standard reasons for near death experiences trotted out is: Hypoxia caused by lack of oxygen to the brain during a near death experience. Coupled with this trauma, any memories formed are likely to be post cardiac arrest or the brain is not truly and completely dead. These are valid observations to a point, however there are questions that still remain which wont be explored at this juncture.

If hypoxia and associated effects are the cause of near death experiences, then similar experiences like OBE's and/ or lucid dreaming may share a similar cause?

For example, someone who experiences lucid dreams or can apparently move in and out of altered states of consciousness. Might actually be suffering from a temporary form of hypoxia, brought about by hyperventilation or by unconsciously *holding their breath.

Has there been any direct or indirect research with regards to the aforementioned?
Such a study would be relatively easy to implement? Assuming one can get hold of a person(s) who claim to be able to lucid dream or come out of their body on demand so to speak.*

Of course a lot of the basis of this research is purely on a experiential level, however from a purely objective view. I assume the monitoring of blood gases and/or breathing rhythms while the person is in an altered state of consciousness may be relatively simple?

From this one would hope that some sort of correlation would become apparent, if one strongly supports a *purely conventional interpretation of the phenomenon. However if any hypothetical results yield a different result, then the conventional explanations/ interpretations would have to be re-examined.

For the moment this only speculative idea, any information, help or indeed criticisms that may to help refine this idea. Would be warmly welcomed!

Many thanks,

Lee-marc.

[anonymous]

Originally Posted by LEECOL

For example, someone who experiences lucid dreams or can apparently move in and out of altered states of consciousness. Might actually be suffering from a temporary form of hypoxia, brought about by hyperventilation or by unconsciously *holding their breath.

When you examine the NDE phenomena in detail, the "scientific" explanations do not match what experiencers report:

https://sites.google.com/site/chs4o8...nde_hypotheses

Michael Prescott discusses chapter 6 of the book "Irreducible Mind" by Edward F. Kelly, Emily Williams Kelly, et al.
http://michaelprescott.typepad.com/m...cible_min.html

Michael Tymn discusses the section on NDE's in chapter 2 "Where Are You?" in the book "Your Eternal Self" by R. Craig Hogan, Ph.D.
Debunking the NDE Debunkers
http://web.archive.org/web/200804220..._nde_debunkers

Chapter 2 in "Your Eternal Self" by Craig Hogan
http://ebook.youreternalself.com/chapter2text.htm


Scientific Theories of the NDE
http://www.near-death.com/experiences/experts01.html

[Miguel]

Originally Posted by LEECOL

For the past couple of years an idea has been bouncing around my head. The germ of an idea concerns the experiential qualitative differences between NDE , Hypnogogic/ hypnopampic and lucid dream experiences. Nothing new you may well assert, however one of the standard reasons for near death experiences trotted out is: Hypoxia caused by lack of oxygen to the brain during a near death experience. Coupled with this trauma, any memories formed are likely to be post cardiac arrest or the brain is not truly and completely dead. These are valid observations to a point, however there are questions that still remain which wont be explored at this juncture.

If hypoxia and associated effects are the cause of near death experiences, then similar experiences like OBE's and/ or lucid dreaming may share a similar cause?

For example, someone who experiences lucid dreams or can apparently move in and out of altered states of consciousness. Might actually be suffering from a temporary form of hypoxia, brought about by hyperventilation or by unconsciously *holding their breath.

Has there been any direct or indirect research with regards to the aforementioned?
Such a study would be relatively easy to implement? Assuming one can get hold of a person(s) who claim to be able to lucid dream or come out of their body on demand so to speak.*

Of course a lot of the basis of this research is purely on a experiential level, however from a purely objective view. I assume the monitoring of blood gases and/or breathing rhythms while the person is in an altered state of consciousness may be relatively simple?

From this one would hope that some sort of correlation would become apparent, if one strongly supports a *purely conventional interpretation of the phenomenon. However if any hypothetical results yield a different result, then the conventional explanations/ interpretations would have to be re-examined.

For the moment this only speculative idea, any information, help or indeed criticisms that may to help refine this idea. Would be warmly welcomed!

Many thanks,

Lee-marc.

OBEs and NDEs are nothing alike. That is a popular misconception. A very few NDEs have OBEs occurring as part of them but that is all. That has been shown by van Lommel.

I don't know much about lucid dreaming but afaik it need not involve OBEs?

In any case, as far as I know, hypoxia induced hallucinations do not necessarily (or usually) lead to an OBE.

Look up the work of Olaf Blanke if you're interested in OBEs.

[LEECOL]

Anon wrote:

When you examine the NDE phenomena in detail, the "scientific" explanations do not match what experiencers report:

To a some extent I agree, however there is not enough evidence to suggest that our consciousness survives physical death!

Miguel wrote:

OBEs and NDEs are nothing alike. That is a popular misconception.

Perhaps..... However they all seem to share some quite striking similarity's.

That has been shown by van Lommel.

Only one researcher? Only one opinion albeit one that has been researched to an extent. Any counter arguments or critiques to his research?
One swallow does not make a summer!

In any case, as far as I know, hypoxia induced hallucinations do not necessarily (or usually) lead to an OBE.

Then why has hypoxia been touted as a mechanism for NDE's, especially considering that some NDE's contain Out of body and lucid dream experiential components?