179. Grant Cameron on UFO Sightings and Extended Human Consciousness (Podcast)

[alextsakiris]

Interview examines government knowledge of the connection between extended human consciousness and the UFO Phenomena.

Join Skeptiko host Alex Tsakiris for an interview with UFO researcher, and author, Grant Cameron. During the interview Cameron e[...]

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[David R]

This is a good documentary:-

Experiencers (Dr. John E. Mack) - 1 - YouTube

John Mack spoke about things like physical evidences for abductions. The story of the school in Africa is particularly interesting.

Carl Sagan devoted a fair amount of space in his "Demon Haunted World" to the UFO phenomenon. His take would set up the skeptical approach to the debate here.

[alextsakiris]

Originally Posted by David R

This is a good documentary:-

thx... Mack was an interesting guy.

[David R]

This guy seems to be wrong with his history. The UFO abduction phenomena goes back to the 1920s. And there are weird alien looking drawings on primitive rock art.

I have to say, this was one of the more non-compelling skeptiko interviews i have listened to so far. He talked a lot but didn't give you much chance to speak.

I wasn't convinced by his explanation that consciousness via ESP has something to do with actual physical alien matter via spaceships and bodies.

But to dismiss the role of consciousness in the account does seem wrong. For example, once when i meditated i "met" an alien. It was an image that came into my mind's eye that had an emotional and telepathic connection. I once met a guy who said he saw a massive UFO over the area i live in, which is urban buildings in the centre of town. That nobody else saw this means that his mind was hallucinating or picking up something real.

The physical evidence for abductions is also compelling. Burnt areas of ground where the spaceship was, different weird pieces of metal in different parts of the body, and multiple eyewitness accounts. When an hallucination is collective, that is either a very weird coincidence, which could happen, or it is of something altogether mysterious.

Your interviewee also didn't seem to know what the difference between something physical and ESP actually is. There is clearly a difference between them.

[David R]

I have 2 personal alien stories.

1) i saw a fleet of UFOs. Which actually turned out to be geese.

2) in my teens i smoked a heavy dose of pot and as i was lying in bed trying to get to sleep there was static and voices coming from my radio even though the radio was turned off, and some kind of weird buzzing electric sound seemingly in my ears that is the like the sound a TV without a transmission makes. And then i saw a massive bright like come into my bedroom window and it lit up the entire room like a floodlight, and then it left and i heard a helicopter, and i got out of bed and looked out of the window and there was one of those army helicopters with the twin blades circling around somewhere off in the distance over the town.

[alextsakiris]

Originally Posted by David R

I wasn't convinced by his explanation that consciousness via ESP has something to do with actual physical alien matter via spaceships and bodies.

I thought he made a compelling case... especially his interviews with gov insiders.

[David R]

Originally Posted by alextsakiris

I thought he made a compelling case... especially his interviews with gov insiders.

It doesn't impress me. George W BUsh could also have known about 9/11 before it happened. But the fact that guy is such a dufus and dumb idiot means that that conspiracy theory is quased to pieces.

[anonymous]

Grant Cameron:
...
But as I say, I’m one, you might have Colin Anders, you have Steven Greer, you have maybe a dozen people in the UFO community who believe strongly that that consciousness is a basic core of this phenomenon. The rest of them would say this is absolutely nonsense. This is crazy. This is nuts-and-bolts. Don’t talk to me about this consciousness stuff. It’s nuts. It’s not well-received in the UFO community.

It’s a very new aspect and I’m saying to the UFO community now we’d better start taking a look seriously at this, as nutty as it might have appeared in the 1950s. This is what’s going to give us the answer to what is going on here. If you start looking at the nature of consciousness, the nature of the universe. Is it really a material universe? How does it work? This entanglement property, all these advanced physics ideas. But we are very, very far away. I don’t think we really understand very much of it.


...

Alex Tsakiris:
...
You’re coming at it from a whole different perspective and saying, “Hey, the UFOs are running the show.” I come at it from another perspective and say, “Hey, as a nonreligious person, as a non-Christian, God is in control. God is clearly in control.” When these near-death experiencers die, they tell you they see God. You just can’t get past that.

I believe you are both right.

To understand what is going on, you have to understand it at the spiritual level. Where are the souls for the aliens and the humans coming from? Are their actions in the physical plane coordinated?

There are different groups of aliens doing different things. Some are at a higher level some at a lower level.

When you listen to NDErs and other sources of information about the afterlife people are said to agree to their life plan. They agree to experience unpleasant things in life, but they do it for a purpose. You can't tell whether a tsunami, earthquake, crime, or any action of a person is good or bad if you only understand what is happening at the physical level. You have to understand what is happening at the spiritual level to really understand the purpose and consequences of something.

In the same way, you cant tell if the aliens are good or bad without knowing what is going on at the spiritual level.

[platobird]

My short take on this...

Expect ufo's...you'll 'create' them

Expect conspiracy theories...you'll 'create' them

That's just how reality works folks. It really is very simple, yet extremely mind blowing...

You will always get what your beliefs demand. Your individual thoughts and emotions are propelled into the physical world. Yes there is amazing cooperation within consciousness, so other like minded people may follow along with that particular story line by choice.

The Multi-verse allows the infinite variables to sort all those story lines out though. Have you ever seen a movie where the producer has shown alternate endings? It's sorta like that? The timeline of each of us is ultimately self directed. You not only choose the ending, you choose every frame passing you by on the screen of life.

The second big factor, is that time is an illusion each of us creates, and is a function of our physical brains.

If you read or listen to nder Anita Moorijani she explains it wonderfully. Not only at that 'level' could she see all her past incarnates, but in another interview I remember her saying, that she could all see all probable futures simultaneously. That begs for the mult-verse theory.

"In that 4D state, it felt like, this is how we created this present physical reality – this “illusion”. By everybody believing in the same things. That, in itself, makes it true for the mass consciousness."


http://www.galacticchannelings.com/e...-moorjani.html

Love and Light
Platobird

[Rolf]

I'm glad Alex highlighted the difference in feel and scope between the "God" experience of NDEers and the "Alien" experience of abductees - it's been on my mind since reading the transcript this morning.

I think it lends a little credence to the notion that these beings might be something of an "older brother" race when compared to us, but maybe not much other than that. Obviously, there's a technological superiority (though not so dramatic that they can't occasionally crash or get shot down), but it seems like their understanding of conciousness - it's true nature and it's potential for manipulation - is also a bit beyond where we currently find ourselves (though nowhere near that of the God-Being encountered in NDEs).

The NDE God experience puts you face-to-face with the heart of the matter; the abduction experience introduces you to some creatures who's civilization has tamed bits and pieces of it for their own interests. It might be like the difference between going to the zoo and going on safari; they're compelling and out-of-the-ordinary for the same reasons, but the difference in meaning and magnitude is so vast that they're hardly comparable.