Multiple Drafts Model Of Consciousness

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

Originally Posted by David

The reverse process - creating a mental world by purely physical means - seems unlikely to be achieved.

If you say so. I see no reason to imagine the entire physical world simpler to conjure up than the human mental world.

Qualia for paramecia only implies qualia for thermostats if you take the view that life is just complex chemistry. The fact that consciousness seems to go seamlessly right down to the most primitive life forms (I don't know about plants) rather suggests to me that the two are intimately connected.

It doesn't go down that deep at all. Why do you think paramecia are conscious in any way like humans?

~~ Paul

[David Bailey]

Originally Posted by Paul C. Anagnostopoulos

If you say so. I see no reason to imagine the entire physical world simpler to conjure up than the human mental world.


It doesn't go down that deep at all. Why do you think paramecia are conscious in any way like humans?

~~ Paul

There are two pieces of evidence regarding paramecia. They can be reversibly anaesthetised by anaesthetic gasses, and there is some evidence that they can be taught.

Regarding your first point, there is a difference between something being difficult, and being impossible in principle. I know we will not agree on this, but I am fairly sure that it is impossible in principle to create a mental world out of physical matter - because you can never cross that bridge between physical matter just doing what it does, and something that experiences things.

There is no proof of these things - partly, I feel, because words like consciousness and experience get subtly redefined to fit the materialist viewpoint. However, a lot of science moves forward with propositions that can't be formally proved - sometimes it works out, other times it doesn't. Indeed, formal proof is really only possible in purely mathematical contexts. Proof in science is always relative to some assumed mathematical context.

David

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

Originally Posted by David

There are two pieces of evidence regarding paramecia. They can be reversibly anaesthetised by anaesthetic gasses, and there is some evidence that they can be taught.

You can do both of those things to a computer. What do they have to do with consciounsess?

Regarding your first point, there is a difference between something being difficult, and being impossible in principle. I know we will not agree on this, but I am fairly sure that it is impossible in principle to create a mental world out of physical matter - because you can never cross that bridge between physical matter just doing what it does, and something that experiences things.

If only you would define what it means to "experience something," we might be able to agree on this point.

There is no proof of these things - partly, I feel, because words like consciousness and experience get subtly redefined to fit the materialist viewpoint.

Here is your chance to define consciousness the way you want, without my distorting it. So ... what is consciousness again?

~~ Paul