One More James Randi Email

[alextsakiris]

Originally Posted by scomsjw

Randi is a controversial figure. He's always been provocative, short-tempered and uncompromising but with good humour. Its hard not to like him. In these discussions you have to remember that he is now at the end of his career. He is eighty years old and only has a couple of assistants at the JREF. It is unreasonable to expect him to drop everything and get personally involved with Alex's experiment. I wish Alex would take the challenge - which would involve very little contact with Randi himself - and then provide a commentary on the way he is treated. He might be pleasantly surprised.

I'm not asking James Randi to "drop everything". All I asked him to do was to vett Dr. Clive Wynne. This can be done with a 30 second review of his website.

Randi's hiding behind this goofy Challenge thing because it allows him to avoid dealing with scientific inquiry into areas he's uncomfortable with.

This entire exercise has been useful in exposing just how anti-science JREF has become.

[pacificwhim]

I see what you're saying, Alex, but the whole episode makes you look a bit (unintentionally, I'm sure) evasive and misleading. Since you have gotten very promising results so far from the experiments, and since Randi is clearly not going to play by the rules you would like to establish, why NOT apply and jump through the MDC hoops? It appears that's the only way you're going to get the JREF people to play ball. Otherwise, what's accomplished? If you hoped to "expose" Randi as anti-science or opposed to work that might defy his beliefs, do you really think you're going to change the mind of a single person in the pro- or anti-Randi camps? Are you just looking for publicity? What's the point of all this (and I just love this word courtesy of Robert Louis Stevenson) huggermugger?

[Chris Noble]

Originally Posted by alextsakiris

I'm not asking James Randi to "drop everything". All I asked him to do was to vett Dr. Clive Wynne. This can be done with a 30 second review of his website.

I'm sure Randi or somebody from JREF would want to communicate with Dr Wynne directly.

Apply for the MDC. Fill out the forms. Get independent scientists such as Dr Wynne to develop the protocol and do the actual tests.

Are you sure Dr Wynne approves of the youtube videos and press releases?
You've also accused him of undermining the research by suggesting that the tests be done without any humans present in the house although you now seem to believe that the opposite is true and that the dog performs better when no humans are present.

[scomsjw]

Originally Posted by alextsakiris

I'm not asking James Randi to "drop everything". All I asked him to do was to vett Dr. Clive Wynne. This can be done with a 30 second review of his website.

I don't think you can expect Randi to get personally involved in such a half-hearted way. A 30 second glance at Dr. Wynne's website is enough to convince me that he's the man for the job but I can see why Randi would want to be much more cautious. I'm sure he feels that he has to choose between serious commitment to the project or no personal involvement at all with his colleagues at JREF handling the challenge.

[David Bailey]

I think it is a mistake to think of JREF as a research/investigative organisation at all. It seems to me that it is the ultimate example of a skeptical organisation whose purpose is simply to make life as difficult as possible for Ψ researchers.

What area of conventional science would operate in a pass/fail sort of way with no grey area in between? At best, it more resembles one of those NASA challenges - get a rocket to such a height for so long and win a prize. Fair enough, but that is not so much about pure research as about trying to push a well defined technology a bit.

Randi may know damn all about Ψ, but he probably knows a hell of a lot about making a fool out of people.

David

[Venom]

Originally Posted by David Bailey

I think it is a mistake to think of JREF as a research/investigative organisation at all.

I don't agree at all.

[Open Mind]

James Randi

'....No, we’ll do the test, Alex. I know you’d like to blather on about it, but I’m ONLY interested in doing a test....'

It is unclear what Randi means here, it sounds like he is keeping his options open, it could mean....

(a) No, I am not coming on for a chat, but we'll do the test Alex, I am only interested in doing a test'

OR

(b) No, we'll do the test if you enter the 1 million challenge.

OR

(c) No, we will do our own test, not yours.

OR

(d) No, JREF will choose the test protocol and researchers for your test

[David Bailey]

Originally Posted by Venom

I don't agree at all.

Do you do research? If so, would you like your research to be validated by JREF with the promise of public scorn if they did not OK it? Normal peer review can be rough and unfair at times, but this is ridiculous!

David

[Venom]

Originally Posted by David Bailey

Do you do research? If so, would you like your research to be validated by JREF with the promise of public scorn if they did not OK it? Normal peer review can be rough and unfair at times, but this is ridiculous!

David

Hopefully, I don't claim that they are psychic dogs in the world.

More seriously, the JREF don't validate the research, they test the claim. It's not the same thing.

Alex claims on his YouTube video that he found a psychic dog. I'd like the JREF to test that claim, because I don't trust Alex at all.

[David Bailey]

Originally Posted by Venom

Hopefully, I don't claim that they are psychic dogs in the world.

Well whether you call the phenomenon pyschic, it has been reported over and over again. What is so wrong with investigating it? I'll bet if you asked around those of your friends with dogs, you would discover some of them with dogs that do this.

Distrusting Alex for demonstrating a common phenomenon under rather more controlled conditions seems a bit unreasonable.

You didn't answer the question as to whether you would submit your own work to scrutiny by a magician with the power to destroy your credibility if he decided you were phoney.

David