My request

[Johann]

A sad incident for Skeptiko has occured yesterday. Bernardo was banned.

I confess, in my ignorance, to being disappointed in both he and Andy; from the little I heard of the case, it sounds as though each could have pursued better methods of disagreement.

I do not have much time now, as I am leaving on a four day trip, but with the little I have I would like to make the request that Andy release the messages he said that Bernardo sent him, and make them public. It is important that the Skeptiko community be allowed full transparency, so that this decision can be seen for what it is - whatever that be. If Andy does not do this, it is no great problem to me; it is always possible to ask Bernardo for his side of the story, but I hope he does it nevertheless, so we can start a discussion.

I also hope he does not delete this thread.

I have posted on Skeptiko for nearly three years, and my career here has been good, kind, and productive. Though I have not always agreed with Paqart, I have rarely been vocal about it, but this time I cannot help but speak out. I hope that can be respected.

- Johann

[EthanT]

I've got to second what Johann has said.

I'd also like to add that, imho, Bernardo is one of the most valuable folks we have on this board. It's rare to get educated professionals (who, additionally, are authors within the field!) on forums like this.

I'm not saying he should be able to get away with breaking the rules, but based on his past behavior I find it hard to believe it was bad enough to warrant a permanent ban.

I agree some transparency is required, or it's going to make some of the other forum members (like myself) wonder what's going on here.

[paqart]

Originally Posted by Johann

A sad incident for Skeptiko has occured yesterday. Bernardo was banned.

I confess, in my ignorance, to being disappointed in both he and Andy; from the little I heard of the case, it sounds as though each could have pursued better methods of disagreement.

I do not have much time now, as I am leaving on a four day trip, but with the little I have I would like to make the request that Andy release the messages he said that Bernardo sent him, and make them public. It is important that the Skeptiko community be allowed full transparency, so that this decision can be seen for what it is - whatever that be. If Andy does not do this, it is no great problem to me; it is always possible to ask Bernardo for his side of the story, but I hope he does it nevertheless, so we can start a discussion.

I also hope he does not delete this thread.

I have posted on Skeptiko for nearly three years, and my career here has been good, kind, and productive. Though I have not always agreed with Paqart, I have rarely been vocal about it, but this time I cannot help but speak out. I hope that can be respected.

- Johann

Johann,

About an hour ago, Bernardo was unbanned, on the basis of his status as a former guest (I had forgotten about this.) I am not going to release the messages because, to be frank, they are private. It is common netiquette for PMs to remain private without permission from recipient and sender. In this case, Bernardo did not have my permission to post my messages to him, and I am not giving permission to post his responses to me.

There is the potential you will get both sides of this later, but that still has to be worked out.

AP

[XXII]

Man am I in the dark about this. What happened?

[Arouet]

Glad to see he is unbanned. He's a good poster and I hope he sticks around.

[Interesting Ian]

Originally Posted by XXII

Man am I in the blank about this. What happened?

A disagreement on the big hurdle thread seems to have escaladed. But no-one knows what was said in the PM's between paqart and Bernardo.

Pleased he's been "unbanned".

[Bernardo]

Originally Posted by Johann

...I would like to make the request that Andy release the messages he said that Bernardo sent him, and make them public. It is important that the Skeptiko community be allowed full transparency, so that this decision can be seen for what it is - whatever that be.

I agree with this, particularly in view of Andy's assessment of what happened in a thread that is now closed (http://forum.mind-energy.net/skeptik...tml#post116863). I find it useless that I just reply and disagree with that assessment, when disclosing the entire conversation would simply allow everyone to judge for themselves and end the story. I think this would only be fair to me, given Andy's portrait of the situation in the thread that is now closed.

I echoed Johann's request in this post, which I wrote even before I had seen his: http://forum.mind-energy.net/skeptik...tml#post116909

[Bernardo]

Originally Posted by Interesting Ian

A disagreement on the big hurdle thread seems to have escaladed. But no-one knows what was said in the PM's between paqart and Bernardo.

Pleased he's been "unbanned".

I think disclosing the entire private conversation is the fair thing to do. Andy has my permission to publish everything I wrote verbatim, provided that everything he wrote today is published alongside it.

[Bernardo]

Originally Posted by paqart

I am not going to release the messages because, to be frank, they are private. It is common netiquette for PMs to remain private without permission from recipient and sender. In this case, Bernardo did not have my permission to post my messages to him, and I am not giving permission to post his responses to me.

Well, I find this a pity. I'd have preferred full disclosure and absolute transparency. Given the above, and given the fact that this thread is closed, it becomes then impossible for me to defend myself from what is said in it. At the very least, then, I'd request that the closed thread be deleted.

[David R]

I know for a fact that Paqart believes that God is an old man with a beard sitting on a throne in some remote corner of the cosmos. This should be enough info to question the entire basis of his ideas about paranormal phenomena.

Just a thought...