49. Craig Hogan, Your Mind Is Not Your Brain (Podcast)

[Larry Boy]

Alex, I don't really understand what you're getting at. It almost sounds like you're saying that the NDE points toward a Christian worldview, and I find that very strange considering that there are quite fundamental differences between what's reported from NDEs and Christianity. For instance: the NDE, if true, suggests that the afterlife consists of several planes, and that you're drawn to one that corresponds to the stage of your spiritual development. To me that sounds nothing like the Christian Heaven. And if we furthermore consider the reincarnation evidence, coupled with the fact that a lot of NDErs suggest reincarnation may be part of the afterlife experience, at least for some, then we have a picture that is quite drastically different from the Christian one. Of course, as you said on the podcast it's hard to evaluate the information that's coming through from alleged mediums, psychics and reincarnated people, as well as from NDErs etc, but I absolutely don't think it's pointing to a Christian view of 'God', whatever He or She or It may be. And I think that's why some people prefer not to use that word.

[David Bailey]

Originally Posted by alextsakiris

... but David, what if the majority of NDEers experience just such a hierarchy? I just don't think we should try and re-package the data to because we're afraid of the religious overtones... follow... wherever it goes!

... and I don't want to get all PC about the word God. It can have a multitude of diffeenrt meanings, but it's pretty close to what we're talking about.

Some of the NDE reports that I have read seem more like a coming together of old friends - others seem to involve a very loving and superior being. The problem is that although Christian God is described as 'loving' he supposedly is 'responsible' for a host of horrid deeds in the bible, and - according to some interpretations - is responsible for all the awful things that happen on earth! To be honest, Christianity is a grotesque religion. I don't know much about Islam etc., but I would expect something similar.

I would not say that most NDE's last long enough to justify the statement that they experience such a hierarchy.

It is not being PC, but I think it is much better to avoid specifically religious language because words come with a baggage, and the baggage associated with the word 'God' (as used by Christians over the centuries) is just awful - the crusades and any number of other wars, President Bush, priests buggering children, unbelievable sexual oppression, the burning of young women at the stake, Northern Ireland troubles.... As far as I am concerned, you just can't divorce the word from all that.

David

[alextsakiris]

Originally Posted by David Bailey

Some of the NDE reports that I have read seem more like a coming together of old friends - others seem to involve a very loving and superior being. The problem is that although Christian God is described as 'loving' he supposedly is 'responsible' for a host of horrid deeds in the bible, and - according to some interpretations - is responsible for all the awful things that happen on earth! To be honest, Christianity is a grotesque religion. I don't know much about Islam etc., but I would expect something similar.

I would not say that most NDE's last long enough to justify the statement that they experience such a hierarchy.

It is not being PC, but I think it is much better to avoid specifically religious language because words come with a baggage, and the baggage associated with the word 'God' (as used by Christians over the centuries) is just awful - the crusades and any number of other wars, President Bush, priests buggering children, unbelievable sexual oppression, the burning of young women at the stake, Northern Ireland troubles.... As far as I am concerned, you just can't divorce the word from all that.

David

- I've been wanting to do some episodes on atheism, but wasn't sure of the direction... you've inspired me to jump in

[David Bailey]

Originally Posted by alextsakiris

- I've been wanting to do some episodes on atheism, but wasn't sure of the direction... you've inspired me to jump in

Is 'atheism' well enough defined. I mean, technically it means that a person does not believe in God, but often it gets extended to something more like Richard Dawkins' position - which rules out any non-physical forces.

David

[alextsakiris]

Originally Posted by Larry Boy

Alex, I don't really understand what you're getting at. It almost sounds like you're saying that the NDE points toward a Christian worldview, and I find that very strange considering that there are quite fundamental differences between what's reported from NDEs and Christianity. For instance: the NDE, if true, suggests that the afterlife consists of several planes, and that you're drawn to one that corresponds to the stage of your spiritual development. To me that sounds nothing like the Christian Heaven. And if we furthermore consider the reincarnation evidence, coupled with the fact that a lot of NDErs suggest reincarnation may be part of the afterlife experience, at least for some, then we have a picture that is quite drastically different from the Christian one. Of course, as you said on the podcast it's hard to evaluate the information that's coming through from alleged mediums, psychics and reincarnated people, as well as from NDErs etc, but I absolutely don't think it's pointing to a Christian view of 'God', whatever He or She or It may be. And I think that's why some people prefer not to use that word.

I agree with all the points you've made... at the same time, I take a big step back from all the Christian crap and compare their worldview to the atheists and it seems like the scales tip toward the Christians/Jews/Muslims/Jains/Buddhists/Hindus.

In its simplest form the question is nothing vs. something? I think the scientific data suggests something.

I'm gonna put together some shows on this.