Skeptics ( Unwitting ) dupes?

[Rod McKenzie]

Skeptics ( Unwitting ) dupes?

I have been pondering why Skeptic organizations are so anti-research. In a bit of synchromicity, I came across this blog
UFO Magazine - UFO Magazine Blog - CSI is CRaP
( H/T: The Daily Grail ) and the referenced book
Amazon.com: The Missing Times: Terry Hansen: Books

They propose that Skeptic organizations have been infiltrated by US Government organizations for the purpose of spreading disinformation through the media.

Any thoughts?

Rod McKenzie

[Psibeliever]

I've said that skepticism, at least in its extreme forms, is a cult - and, now, it seems, they're dupes as well. And this seems to touch a raw nerve in some of its true believers.

[David Bailey]

Sorry to put a dampener on this idea, but I tend to be very skeptical of conspiracy theories - it always seems to me that so many people would need be in the know that information would leak.

People always used to think the Bush administration was involved in various conspiracies - whereas they were probably the dumbest administration ever!

David

[anonymous]

Originally Posted by Rod McKenzie

Skeptics ( Unwitting ) dupes?

Any thoughts?

Rod McKenzie

Hi Rod,

I came to the same conclusion but by a different route:


http://forum.mind-energy.net/showthread.php?p=4271

There is a big problem in the skeptical community. There is rampant obscuration of the truth by prominent skeptics who have misled masses of people. Skeptics often say that believers in the paranormal have been fooled by charlatans but it is the skeptics who have been fooled by prominent members of their community who seem to be more interested in winning the debate than in illuminating the truth.

More examples here

http://forum.mind-energy.net/showthread.php?p=4272
http://forum.mind-energy.net/showthread.php?p=4282

These posts contains examples...


Richard Dawkins refuses to consider peer reviewed scientific studies in a debunking documentary.

James Randi who claims mediums routinely use cold reading to fool people fails to demonstrate it that can be done:

Randi FAQ makes incorrect claims about parapsychology

Randi forced to retract false statements about paranormal research:

Michael Prescott discusses rampant innacuracy in a chapter of a book by Randi.

Martin Gardner making unsupportable statements about skeptical research results.

Martin Gardner claiming a medium used cold when the sitter wasn't even present in the room with the medium.

Susan Blackmore iignoring her own successful experiemnts.

Michael Schermer mischaracterizing NDE research results.

Multiple instances of Wiseman describing a statistically significant result in a psi experiment as a failure.



More examples here
http://forum.mind-energy.net/showthread.php?p=8542


http://forum.mind-energy.net/showthread.php?p=8278
Gives a link to examples of skeptics:

1) refusing to engage with parapsychological investigations on any level as being of no interest, undoubtedly fraudulent, obviously nonsense, etc.
...
2) engaging with [psychical investigations], but explaining them away with all kinds of implausible scenarios which in any other context no one would entertain for a moment
...
3) carrying out experiments in order to prove that, when properly conducted, the effect will not appear, getting an effect, and then explaining it away on the grounds of 'experimental flaws'
...
4) carrying out experiments with psychics on television with a very precisely determined pre-agreed protocol, getting highly significant results, and then refusing to accept the results as valid

http://forum.mind-energy.net/showthread.php?p=8563
Skeptics prey on grieving people, and put psychics in mental hospitals.

[anonymous]

Originally Posted by David Bailey

People always used to think the Bush administration was involved in various conspiracies - whereas they were probably the dumbest administration ever!

David

Hi David,

Do you think the mass media does a better job of reporting on politics than they do reporting on psi?

[David Bailey]

Originally Posted by anonymous

Hi David,

Do you think the mass media does a better job of reporting on politics than they do reporting on psi?

Probably about evenly bad!

I don't deny that many scientists are being fooled by the extreme skeptics - or that the skeptics can be pretty unscrupulous, but I somehow doubt that there is a government organisation behind the process - I would need a lot of persuasion. Skeptics make a pretty good living out of their 'trade', need there be any more motivation?

David

[anonymous]

Originally Posted by David Bailey

Probably about evenly bad!

I don't deny that many scientists are being fooled by the extreme skeptics - or that the skeptics can be pretty unscrupulous, but I somehow doubt that there is a government organisation behind the process - I would need a lot of persuasion. Skeptics make a pretty good living out of their 'trade', need there be any more motivation?

David

Hi David,

I agree with you in principle: never attribute to malevolence what can be accomplished by stupidity. However, Ufo's are a bit different from psi. There are legitimate national security issues involved: invasions of national air space, abductions of citizens, advanced technology with weapons potential (think faster than light missiles which we would not like to encourage other countires to develop). Since the US intelligence communities are responsible for national security and are in the business of conspiracies (at least outside the US), I think it is reasonable to consider that Rod's post is not absurd and may be valid at least with respect to ufo's.

Many people in the remote viewing community think the government statement that remote viewing was real but not useful is disinformation and that the government continues to use remote viewing. There are also reports of government agents infiltrating ufo believer organizations. I think there is some precedent for Rod's thesis.

[David Bailey]

Originally Posted by anonymous

Hi David,

I agree with you in principle: never attribute to malevolence what can be accomplished by stupidity. However, Ufo's are a bit different from psi. There are legitimate national security issues involved: invasions of national air space, abductions of citizens, advanced technology with weapons potential (think faster than light missiles which we would not like to encourage other countires to develop). Since the US intelligence communities are responsible for national security and are in the business of conspiracies (at least outside the US), I think it is reasonable to consider that Rod's post is not absurd and may be valid at least with respect to ufo's.

Many people in the remote viewing community think the government statement that remote viewing was real but not useful is disinformation and that the government continues to use remote viewing. I think there is some precedent for Rod's thesis.

I am rather less interested in UFO's and the work of mediums, basically because it is so hard to test experimentally. That is not the same as saying these phenomena are not real.

I think we can forget faster than light missiles! Perhaps UFO's and other psi phenomena are closely related - something coming through from another reality rather than from another place in this galaxy (or even another one).

However, a lot of people make an incredibly good living out of military posturing, and I suspect the UFO phenomena scare the military because if people accepted these phenomena as real, they might start to ask awkward questions - such as how could you distinguish UFO's from a real attack?

The stark truth is that if there is a nuclear exchange, most of the expensive military preparations will be good for nothing

David

[anonymous]

Originally Posted by David Bailey

I am rather less interested in UFO's and the work of mediums, basically because it is so hard to test experimentally. That is not the same as saying these phenomena are not real.

I'm not sure what you mean. If the alleged reports about ufo's are right, there is ample evidence but it is in the hands of the government. So it is easy to test because there is physical evidence, but it is hard to test because it is kept from the public.


From "The Enduring Enigma of the UFO" by Dean Radin

Statements from Astronauts
Apollo 14 astronaut Edgar Mitchell repeatedly has said that
high-ranking military officers have privately admitted that for
many decades factions of the U.S. government have been
aware that UFOs and alien technology are real. Many other
astronauts have provided corroborating statements. Mercury
astronaut Scott Carpenter photographed a UFO while in orbit
on May 24, 1962, later saying, “At no time when the astronauts
were in space were they alone. There was a constant
surveillance by UFOs.” In 1985, Mercury and Gemini astronaut
Gordon Cooper, in an address to the United Nations, said:
“I believe that these extraterrestrial vehicles and their crews
are visiting this planet from other planets . . . For many years,
I have lived with a secret, in a secrecy imposed on all specialists
and astronauts. I can now reveal that every day, in the
United States, our radar instruments capture objects of form
and composition unknown to us. And there are thousands of
witness reports and a quantity of documents to prove this,
but nobody wants to make them public.” Such statements
are not limited to U.S. astronauts. In 1979, Russian cosmonaut
Victor Afanasyev commented on a UFO he saw while
en route to the Solyut 6 space station: “It followed us during
half of our orbit . . . It was an engineered structure, made
from some type of metal, approximately 40 meters long with
inner hulls.” —DR

I think we can forget faster than light missiles!

If ufo phenomena is real, as astronauts seem to say, I don't think you can just dismiss this. Why are you so ready to dismiss this when you accept the possibility of psi which is also unexplained by current science.

Perhaps UFO's and other psi phenomena are closely related - something coming through from another reality rather than from another place in this galaxy (or even another one).

Right! If you are willing to speculate about this why not about faster than light travel.

However, a lot of people make an incredibly good living out of military posturing, and I suspect the UFO phenomena scare the military because if people accepted these phenomena as real, they might start to ask awkward questions - such as how could you distinguish UFO's from a real attack?

It sounds like you agree there is a reason for the government to conspire to hide the reality of the ufo phenomena. The government doesn't want people to belive in ufo's.

The stark truth is that if there is a nuclear exchange, most of the expensive military preparations will be good for nothing

David

I'm not sure I understand you point. We have nuclear missiles to deter or counter attack a nuclear strike. No one thinks a 2000 lb gps guided bomb will be useful in an nuclear exchange. However just because there is a risk of a nuclear exchange doesn't mean that we will never have a use for a 2000 lb gps guided bomb. There are various threats and each has a different defense and response.

[anonymous]

Originally Posted by David Bailey

I am rather less interested in UFO's and the work of mediums, basically because it is so hard to test experimentally. That is not the same as saying these phenomena are not real.

Which are you saying is hard to test? Mediums or ufo's? If you think mediumship is hard to test, why do you think that? My opinion is that it is hard to test without funding. With funding it is easy to test. There has been a lot of good mediumship research. I've posted about it often. More info is here:

http://sites.google.com/site/chs4o8p...ry_of_evidence

see: proxy sittings, cross correspondences, book tests, newspaper test, individual cases, overviews.