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10-02-2009, 02:44 PM
| | Senior Member | | Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 4,114
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Quote: |
Originally Posted by Larry Boy A therapist should be neutral, in my opinion, neither dismissing nor endorsing the past life memory claims of his patients. His job is to help the patient deal with whatever problems he has, not to decide whether reincarnation is a possibility or not. That's for scientists to investigate. And of course, the therapist shouldn't speculate about memories implanted by "our overlord denizens of the hollow earth", but surely that's not what we're discussing here? | I'm just trying to figure out why people think past life regression is reasonable, whereas my list of other things people believe (e.g., ghosts, aliens) is not. Quote: |
So we should invent criteria for deciding what is possible and not prior to investigating claims? Evidence isn't what we should base our judgments on then?
| I agree wholeheartedly. So why are people laughing at my list of other things?
~~ Paul
Last edited by Paul C. Anagnostopoulos; 10-02-2009 at 02:53 PM.
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10-02-2009, 02:49 PM
| | Senior Member | | Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Massachusetts, USA
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Quote: |
Originally Posted by Ariannel Well, it's too bad that you can't even try to listen to what's been found when people have been regressed. I really don't know how you can argue against it when you really don't know what it's truly about. If you're not willing to actually look what's out there in terms of information, then I really don't see the need to discuss this with you anymore. | Okay, then give me a really good example to study. I already tried one of Stevenson's books. We looked at the cop's story, except that we have no original material to study. I do think the fact that he never mentioned that the artist translated The Hunchback of Notre Dame was an important piece of missing information.
I'll try to keep an open mind, even if it doesn't involve corroborating evidence of the afterlife or a probability calculation. I'm willing to purchase any book you suggest. Quote: |
Yeah, sure. Why not take that a step further and just not listen to or believe what anyone says ever because, you know, people can lie and make up stories. You just can't trust what anyone says. I'm sure human society can really benefit from that line of reasoning.
| Why do people always take "humans don't make great witnesses" to this absurd extreme? It's really different when my son tells me he saw an ambulance in the center of town versus him telling me that he was Albert Einstein in his previous life. But when it comes to scientific investigation, yes, we should all be skeptical of the anecdotes.
~~ Paul
Last edited by Paul C. Anagnostopoulos; 10-02-2009 at 02:54 PM.
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10-02-2009, 03:13 PM
| | Senior Member | | Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 244
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul C. Anagnostopoulos  Hypnotic context... | If hypnosis were the only thing in question then I might agree, the problem
with all of your ideas is that it is not.
There is, first of all, the spontaneous recollection of past lives by children.
Then there is the consistency and serious tone which accompany these
memories.
Then there are the birthmarks.
Then there are the details about certain people that they could have not
known by any ordinary means.
Then there is the recognition of the alleged previous incarnation's family.
The hypnosis just confirms all of the above.
Do you at least concede that the evidence is surprising if reincarnation is false? |
10-02-2009, 04:35 PM
| | Senior Member | | Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Massachusetts, USA
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Quote:
There is, first of all, the spontaneous recollection of past lives by children.
Then there is the consistency and serious tone which accompany these
memories.
Then there are the birthmarks.
Then there are the details about certain people that they could have not
known by any ordinary means.
Then there is the recognition of the alleged previous incarnation's family.
The hypnosis just confirms all of the above.
Do you at least concede that the evidence is surprising if reincarnation is false?
| Children making up past life memories doesn't surprise me at all. The birthmarks are a fishing expedition.
The details about people is interesting, but only if it is truly improbable. But the problem is the way these details are matched and recorded. In the Stevenson story I read, the families had 40 years to get their story straight. And I'm not implying that they cheated, simply that 40 years of chit-chat about the supposed family connection is plenty long to make the story internally consistent. I want a modern story where the families have never met and the entire investigation is carefully recorded.
The hypnosis doesn't confirm anything. It's just another piece of the story. Can we find a complete transcript of the hypnosis sessions, so we can see just how much suggestion is being made? Is Robert Snow's session available?
~~ Paul  |
10-02-2009, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Children making up past life memories doesn't surprise me at all. | Really?
Not even on the grounds that they insist upon it and that the stories
remain consistent? Quote: |
I want a modern story where the families have never met and the entire investigation is carefully recorded.
| Yes, well, who doesn't... Quote: |
The hypnosis doesn't confirm anything. It's just another piece of the story.
| A significant one. Quote: |
Can we find a complete transcript of the hypnosis sessions, so we can see just how much suggestion is being made? Is Robert Snow's session available?
| I'm not sure if there are any transcripts available apart for those of Dr Newton. (his books have the format of one transcript after another)
And I'd be the first to admit that Newton's patients say things which you
might find...unlikely... |
10-02-2009, 04:56 PM
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Posts: 244
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul C. Anagnostopoulos | Yeah, that's pretty much what the Michael Newton books are filled with.
You have to remember that the hypnotists in these cases have probably
already regressed enough people to be convinced of the reality of the regression.
They take all of the things you grimace at for granted.
You probably wouldn't want to start with a Michael Newton book. |
10-02-2009, 05:21 PM
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10-02-2009, 05:26 PM
| | Senior Member | | Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 4,114
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Quote: |
Originally Posted by majinrevan Really?
Not even on the grounds that they insist upon it and that the stories
remain consistent? | Nope.
~~ Paul | |
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