My version of the million dollar challenge.

[Psibeliever]

Let me make one thing clear: I DON'T have a million dollars to give anyone, and this is just a discussion.

I have nothing but contempt for Randi's Million Dollar Challenge (MDC), for reasons that I've stated in this forum and also for reasons that others have stated elsewhere. That said, I would like to use it for something else that skeptics have been deriding - namely, the existance of extraterrestrials.

I used to be a skeptic, until I began reading Stanton Friedman's works, and I also began doing some investigations on my own. To my own surprise, he - and many other thoughtful commentators - have very convincing arguments on their side, from radar observations to personal observations by highly credible witnesses, like military personnel and police officers. The proof, to me, is as good as the proof for, say, evolution (which I do believe in).

But I'm not totally convinced yet, so, I would offer a hypothetical prize to anyone who can show me totally convincing proof that aliens exist. This would include either
1) An alien, dead or alive, who can be examined by world experts and also shown on CNN and the major news networks; and/or
2) An alien spaceship, which can be examined by world experts and also shown on CNN and the major news networks.
3) If the alien and spaceship lands on the White House lawn or shows up on Larry King Live, then that doesn't count, because the applicant didn't bring about that result - to win the prize, he has to be responsible for bringing me the proof.

Now, as Stanton Friedman says, he would like to see this too, but, in the real world, perfection just isn't possible. But this is how I would like to be convinced.

So I ask, is this fair? Especially considering what I think of Randi's version. I say once again that I don't have any money to give anyone, and this is just hypothetical.

[BannedBySkeptiko]

Originally Posted by Psibeliever

Let me make one thing clear: I DON'T have a million dollars to give anyone, and this is just a discussion.

I have nothing but contempt for Randi's Million Dollar Challenge (MDC), for reasons that I've stated in this forum and also for reasons that others have stated elsewhere.

Such as Psibeliever's position:

Originally Posted by Psibeliever

if he wants me to take the challenge, he must give me the million dollars up front. Even if I get zero hits, I still keep the money, and psi is proven. Psi will only be disproven if I get less than zero hits.

If he doesn't like it, what's he going to do about it?

In answer to you question there, I expect Randi will ignore you, as well he should.

Originally Posted by Psibeliever

That said, I would like to use it for something else that skeptics have been deriding - namely, the existance of extraterrestrials.

What skeptics are those? I've heard prominent skeptics praise the SETI project. SETI - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Originally Posted by Psibeliever

I used to be a skeptic,

Can you point to some of your skeptical writings?

Originally Posted by Psibeliever

until I began reading Stanton Friedman's works, and I also began doing some investigations on my own. To my own surprise, he - and many other thoughtful commentators - have very convincing arguments on their side, from radar observations to personal observations by highly credible witnesses, like military personnel and police officers. The proof, to me, is as good as the proof for, say, evolution (which I do believe in).

We can *check* evidence for evolution. Some required non-repeatable field discoveries, but the resulting fossils are verifiable. Parapsychology has yet to find a single repeatable demonstration that the subject of its studies even exists.

Originally Posted by Psibeliever

But I'm not totally convinced yet, so, I would offer a hypothetical prize to anyone who can show me totally convincing proof that aliens exist. This would include either
1) An alien, dead or alive, who can be examined by world experts and also shown on CNN and the major news networks; and/or
2) An alien spaceship, which can be examined by world experts and also shown on CNN and the major news networks.
3) If the alien and spaceship lands on the White House lawn or shows up on Larry King Live, then that doesn't count, because the applicant didn't bring about that result - to win the prize, he has to be responsible for bringing me the proof.

Does Fox's "Alien Autopsy" count? They showed what they said was an alien body being being examined by experts.

Randi's challenge is more carefully designed. JREF and the claimant negotiate a test in which the outcome must be objectively obvious either way.

Originally Posted by Psibeliever

Now, as Stanton Friedman says, he would like to see this too, but, in the real world, perfection just isn't possible. But this is how I would like to be convinced.

Much like we skeptics want a repeatable demonstrations and a falsifiable theory, like real sciences have, not a bigger pile of anecdotes from the lab.

-Bryan

[Psibeliever]

Does Fox's "Alien Autopsy" count? They showed what they said was an alien body being being examined by experts.

Fox's movie is a fake, and it wouldn't count. I want an alien corpse or spaceship that all experts can look at, in front of Larry King Live and CNN.

Stanton Friedman has a great webpage and also a great book on this - check out his web page, and, especially, check out his "UFO's and Science."

I'm not him, but I have been in correspondance with him.

[BannedBySkeptiko]

Originally Posted by Psibeliever

Fox's movie is a fake, and it wouldn't count.

Yeah, that was the point.

When will I learn not to use rhetorical questions on discussion boards?


Psibeliever, how about the serious questions? Since you say you were a skeptic, can you point to some of your skeptical writings? What skeptics were you referring to that have been deriding the existence of extraterrestrials?

Originally Posted by Psibeliever

Stanton Friedman has a great webpage and also a great book on this - check out his web page, and, especially, check out his "UFO's and Science."

If it's scientific, what is his scientific theory and evidence could disprove it?


-Bryan

[Psibeliever]

I haven't published to any real extent on this. But, as for deriding the existance of ET's, I'm referring to Carl Sagan, Seth Shostak and Michael Shermer, all of whom are skeptics and don't believe that ET's are visiting Earth. All of them of course do believe that life exists elsewhere in the universe.

[BannedBySkeptiko]

Originally Posted by Psibeliever

I haven't published to any real extent on this.

How about posts to discussion groups from when you, "used to be a skeptic"? Just saying you were a skeptic is unconvincing. Highly gullible people say that too, and they believe it.

Originally Posted by Psibeliever

But, as for deriding the existance of ET's, I'm referring to Carl Sagan, Seth Shostak and Michael Shermer, all of whom are skeptics and don't believe that ET's are visiting Earth. All of them of course do believe that life exists elsewhere in the universe.

What a mess. You think scientists that believe in extraterrestrial intelligence deride the existence of extraterrestrials?

Whether there is intelligent life beyond Earth is a different question from whether UFO's are alien space ships. Real skeptics understand these issues, but we constantly see our positions dumbed-down by those those who do not.

-Bryan

[Psibeliever]

How about posts to discussion groups from when you, "used to be a skeptic"? Just saying you were a skeptic is unconvincing. Highly gullible people say that too, and they believe it.

Fine - don't believe me, then.

Whether there is intelligent life beyond Earth is a different question from whether UFO's are alien space ships.

Agreed. I was referring to the skeptics not believing the latter.

[BannedBySkeptiko]

Originally Posted by Psibeliever

Agreed. I was referring to the skeptics not believing the latter.

Lucky there was a skeptic here, since what what you actually wrote was about skeptics deriding the former.

Is it really true that the scientists you named "believe that life exists elsewhere in the universe"? The astronomers argued its probability, but that's not the same as believing in it while the direct evidence has yet to be found.

-Bryan

[Psibeliever]

Don't you have anything more substantive to say besides splitting hairs?

[BannedBySkeptiko]

Originally Posted by Psibeliever

Don't you have anything more substantive to say besides splitting hairs?

It's still right there in front of you. You chose not respond to most of it, and now you act as if I did nothing but split hairs because I refuted you where you did respond.

The deeper issues, such as how the evidence for evolution is

And come on: saying Seth Shostak derides the existence of extraterrestrials, that's just laughable. Seth Shostak - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

-Bryan