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Is it possible to develop different psi abilities?

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  • Kim
    replied
    You do make your own reality

    I very much agree that we make our own luck, decide our own success or failure, and determine what the outcome of various experiments are.. even something as material as counting money can get subjective when you want/need it bad enough. Everything is fluid. Nothing is concrete... even concrete. The article about the Sheep and the Goats is very very true, and so is Biocentrism


    Biocentrism refers to the scientific position that life and consciousness form the basis of observable reality, and thereby the basis of the universe itself.

    In other words, our perception of reality actually creates it.
    Back in my church going days, the pastors used to speak of this ALOT! "You shall have what you speak into existance." They talked about having "a bad confession," which is when you complain and expect the worst all the time, and that gives you bad luck. The bible speaks of finding what you seek... and having mountain moving faith... so this isn't new.

    "Seek and ye shall find... for everyone that seeketh findeth!"

    One thing is for sure you rarely find what you aren't looking for. Or if you do, you will invariably interpret what you do find AS being what you were expecting to find.

    What is great fun is to visit many different forums. There are forums and boards where people think all phenomonon is due to Aliens. To them God is an Alien. Our planet was seeded by Aliens. They have blackouts and assume they've been abducted. Everything that is otherwise unexplainable is caused by aliens. Then you have the ghost forums, and people there think Ghosts cause everything. Sure they have their EVPs and their special cameras for photographing ghosts... but that's what they are looking for and frankly they have found more proof than most groups. Still there is nothing that's going to prove the point to unbelievers. Then you have energy workers who think it is all about energy... and the psi people and various factions within that group... Then there are the Faith Based Christians who explain it all as Miracles, angels, and God... Then there are the eastern religion people... the Yogis, and various Krishna consciousness ideals... and we all think we know, and we all have our mythos worked out to explain how and why it works.

    The funny part comes when someone starts telling their story on the wrong board. I can't believe sometimes how quick psi energy workers are to call Alien lovers flakes, and that's just an example. We all get indignant when faced with flakes of from another kind of cerial box. LOL

    What is really scary, is when you notice that all these people are talking about similar phenomonon, and explaining it in different ways. I am pretty sure we are all experiencing very similar phenomonon, but we explain it all in ways we can accept, and our brains somehow 'help' us to make phenomonon fit our mythos. Who's right? All of us... or none of us?

    I have my own theories about all this, several as a matter of fact, all of which work within the framework, of most of the phenomonon I've seen and read about. (none of them include aliens, but I am still open) I don't know for sure what these occurances mean, only that people do experience certain phenomonon. What causes objects to levitate or move by themselves? IDK... but sometimes they do. I've seen it happen a few times, and in the course of my work and research, I have had numerous eye witness accounts of floating humanoid figures that vanish, furniture moved before my eyes. I"ve even seen scratches from "demons" even bites. I've seen some weird stuff, but what causes it? I might think I know. I have my own intuition, and theories based on years of investigation, but I can't and don't even want to convert people who have their own theories. I only want to hear their stories as objectively presented as they can possibly present them.

    I am far from skeptical. I really want to believe. I know I do, and that is perhaps my problem. However I have met people who if soul kissed by a type five demon would deny it ever happened. I mean they don't believe even when you rub their face in evidence. They don't want to know... in the same way I would be miserable in a world without magic... without some hidden secret mystery, which I am always just on the verge of discovering, other people could not sleep at night if they knew ghosts or angels or demonic entities were milling about in their bedrooms... perhaps pulling the covers off their toes. I can't say I blame them. This is a disturbing thought for most people. For me it's just part of life, but for most people that's too frightening. LOL
    Last edited by Kim; January 18th, 2010, 11:04 PM.

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  • Rick Hilleard
    replied
    Greeting all,

    I know this post is a little old but I came across this very good question and thought, well yes what better example of what can be developed in psi functioning tha, Remote Viewing, this is a prime example. This is primarily because there exists a set standard of protocols, once trianed and adhered to, will develop your abilities in this area.

    There are a small number of Ex-Spooks teachings this, and some second generation Remote Viewers.


    regards

    Rick

    RV
    Get the Future. . .Now !

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  • mcadwell
    replied
    I found this to be interesting

    While perusing around in quantum physics I came across something called Biocentrism and found it fascinating.

    Biocentrism refers to the scientific position that life and consciousness form the basis of observable reality, and thereby the basis of the universe itself.

    In other words, our perception of reality actually creates it.

    So, could it be, that our perception of psychic phenomena being a possibility actually creates the conditions to enable it to be real?

    I am including the wikipedia link as it is worded more in layman's terms:

    Biocentrism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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  • Kerry Needs:Whole Science
    replied
    Was discovered by Gertrude Schmeidler about the effect differences in psi research between those who believe it may be possible and those who do not, here's a good link to explain... Sheep Goat Effect


    Kerry
    Public Homepage - Whole Science - Discover the Power of You.

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  • hoggworks
    replied
    The sheep/goat effect?

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  • Kerry Needs:Whole Science
    replied
    Originally posted by hoggworks View Post
    Couldn't that also mean that when we've time to focus, our own thoughts are more focused, and we do better at the task at hand for that reason?
    Well perhaps that active type of consciousness is more conducive to PK ability, and perhaps a passive, 'unconscious' type of receptive consciousness would be more conducive to ESP.

    However, I still think our unconscious mind could exert a large influence even in PK experiences, as despite our conscious intentions we may have unconscious beliefs that ultimately produce the intended result (as in the sheep/goat effect).

    Kerry Needs
    Whole Science
    Public Homepage - Whole Science - Discover the Power of You.

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  • hoggworks
    replied
    Couldn't that also mean that when we've time to focus, our own thoughts are more focused, and we do better at the task at hand for that reason?

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  • Kerry Needs:Whole Science
    replied
    Hi,

    I believe it is possible to develop psi abilities and consciousness research suggests that psi is related to the unconscious mind. When our conscious mind is quiet or focused somewhere else, people often do better in psi related tasks. Studies have also found that the less 'internal chatter' we have going on in our heads the better we perform at ESP tasks and suchlike, which is why extroverts usually have a higher psi ability. Studies have also shown that being in hypnosis is more conducive to psi ability (Cardena, 2005)

    It does make sense that those times when our minds are 'blank' , or we are not thinking about anything in particular, that we are more likely to pick up the thoughts of those around us and tap into the information 'field' that may be connected to our unconscious mind.

    Kerry
    Public Homepage - Whole Science - Discover the Power of You.

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  • davidsmith73
    replied
    Originally posted by BannedBySkeptiko View Post
    If you assert nothing about "psi" that distinguishes it from magic...
    What do you mean by 'magic'?

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  • BannedBySkeptiko
    replied
    Originally posted by davidsmith73 View Post
    Basing an assertion about whether psi experiences can be developed to a particular degree should quite rightly be based on evidence - scientific evidence. The assertion should not be based on evolutionary arguments that carry little weight.
    Hey, if you can show psi to your "particular degree", please do so. I keep asking what anyone can actually show for real, and so far all I've gotten are excuses.

    Does evolution do an amazing job of exploiting real abilities? Absolutely yes. How strong are the psi abilities we've evolved? Indistinguishable from zero.

    If you believers in magic are unconvinced by the evidence, well, we realists are not surprised.


    Originally posted by davidsmith73 View Post
    We can talk about evidence for psi in terms of empirical knowledge.
    And you and I have, in this very thread. There's no evidence telling us anything specific about it. Psi is still totally fantasy, not empirical hypothesis.

    Originally posted by davidsmith73 View Post
    That's fine, I have no problem with that. But you were talking about psi experiences in the context of an evolutionary just-so-story where psi is a cognitive ability or trait subject to evolutionary forces. I'm just trying to get the point across that when you use that kind of argument, you have to make certain assumptions about how far psi experiences can actually be developed in an evolutionary sense.
    And we're past that. If you assert nothing about "psi" that distinguishes it from magic, then it is permanently immune to dis-proof. Here, I'm considering reality, not your religion.

    -Bryan

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  • anonymous
    replied
    I have heard many anecdotal reports from psychics that the ability does seem to run in families. It's too bad that our society is so anti-psi (burning witches, super-skeptical etc). If it were more accepted we might have more research on the subject and know if these data hold up to more rigorous study.

    However some humans societies have a habit of murdering people (burning witches etc) suspected of being psychic.

    If selection can increase psi ability we might not see it in these socieites.

    Using test subjects of European and or Christian ancestry might be a poor choice for an experimental system.

    Psi might be more pervalent in shaministic societies, but this is also one reason the dogs that know experiments could be imporant.
    Last edited by anonymous; November 4th, 2008, 07:40 PM.

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  • davidsmith73
    replied
    Originally posted by BannedBySkeptiko View Post
    The question was about "developing psi abilities", and the answer is that the evidence is decidedly against psychic abilities of a sort that people can develop.
    Basing an assertion about whether psi experiences can be developed to a particular degree should quite rightly be based on evidence - scientific evidence. The assertion should not be based on evolutionary arguments that carry little weight.

    What's psi? If one thinks it to be a scientific hypothesis, then it must be specific and predictive, open to refutation by evidence. The evidence is against it.

    The problem is not that we do not know enough about some actual phenomenon, it's that "psi" is just a term parapsychologists made up so they don't have to come out and say "magic". Magic is immune to disproof, that much is true, but that's no excuse for pretending we live in total ignorance.

    We can talk about evidence for psi in terms of empirical knowledge. That's fine, I have no problem with that. But you were talking about psi experiences in the context of an evolutionary just-so-story where psi is a cognitive ability or trait subject to evolutionary forces. I'm just trying to get the point across that when you use that kind of argument, you have to make certain assumptions about how far psi experiences can actually be developed in an evolutionary sense.

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  • BannedBySkeptiko
    replied
    Originally posted by davidsmith73 View Post
    I was not suggesting that organisms need to know how psi works in order for evolution to select such an ability.

    This is my point: you have to know how psi works in order to say for certain that psi experiences would have evolved past a certain 'strength' (although it's not clear to what degree you are suggesting these experiences would have evolved).
    The question was about "developing psi abilities", and the answer is that the evidence is decidedly against psychic abilities of a sort that people can develop.

    Originally posted by davidsmith73 View Post
    I am merely saying that the evolutionary argument, as an argument against the existence of psi, is very weak because it assumes so much about the phenomena.
    What's psi? If one thinks it to be a scientific hypothesis, then it must be specific and predictive, open to refutation by evidence. The evidence is against it.

    The problem is not that we do not know enough about some actual phenomenon, it's that "psi" is just a term parapsychologists made up so they don't have to come out and say "magic". Magic is immune to disproof, that much is true, but that's no excuse for pretending we live in total ignorance.

    -Bryan

    Leave a comment:


  • davidsmith73
    replied
    Originally posted by BannedBySkeptiko View Post
    It's an argument against these abilities, and evolution does not care if an organism knows how its abilities work.
    I was not suggesting that organisms need to know how psi works in order for evolution to select such an ability.

    This is my point: you have to know how psi works in order to say for certain that psi experiences would have evolved past a certain 'strength' (although it's not clear to what degree you are suggesting these experiences would have evolved).

    Firstly, there might be something about the fundamental nature of the process underlying psi experiences that prevent those experiences from ever being developed past a certain 'strength'.

    Secondly, there might be developmental contraints that prevent whatever structure is supporting psi (brains?) from developing 'strong' experiences.

    Regardless of whether any particular trait confers an advantage to the organism or not, the trait has to be present within the population in the first place. If the development of a trait is physically constrained then there is not much for evolution to act on.

    However, for all we know, we may indeed be able to develop 'strong' abilities that are hereditary and subject to evolutionary forces.

    I am merely saying that the evolutionary argument, as an argument against the existence of psi, is very weak because it assumes so much about the phenomena.

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  • BannedBySkeptiko
    replied
    Kakrafoonian Telepathy

    Originally posted by Open Mind View Post
    Bryan, you are wrong to include 'telepathy' in there.

    - If you shared perfect telepathy with another mind, whose thought is whose? It would destroy your sense of individuality, your sense of ego and if anything reduce ability to survive.
    Fair point. Telepathy of the type suffered by the Belcebron people of Kakrafoon[*] could be an evolutionary disadvantage.

    So we might answer question 1 in on OP with, "let's sure hope not". We are fortunate that the evidence for telepathy's existence is so bad.

    -Bryan
    [*]Douglas Adams, The Restaurant at the End of the Universe, 1980.

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