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More people believe in the paranormal than before.

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  • More people believe in the paranormal than before.

    CSI has noted years ago that belief in the paranormal is on the rise, but the author tried to whitewash the poll, saying that other polls, including the gallup poll, shows no rise.

    Oh yeah? The 2001 Gallup Poll shows a significant rise in belief in the paranormal.


    Game over, for now at least.

  • #2
    There's a game? And it's over?

    ~~ Paul

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    • #3
      Yes. Csiscop and the skeptical extremists were on a crusade to debunk the paranormal, and also to bring humanity to the new age of enlightenment. The movement has failed, and it's over.

      Comment


      • #4
        I didn't realize that a Gallup poll could tell us that. Can it also tell us if we've begun to descend into another dark age? I'm particularly excited by the idea that people believe that people can be possessed by the Devil.

        It's a good thing television and movies have nothing to do with this.

        ~~ Paul

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        • #5
          Poll vaulting

          Our former President, GWB, proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that polls are essentially a useless barometer for predicting the end results.

          The one area I am in 100% agreement with skeptics is that belief should not drive science. Psi will be validated in nature as a true phenomenon, and once we begin to understand it, many beliefs will fall by the wayside, including the belief in the false prophet, James Randi. :-)

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          • #6
            I agree that we should try and validate as many psi precepts as possible, though I note in passing what Freeman Dyson has said, that the paranormal may be true but may not be testable.

            But the ganzfield experiments and many other replications have shown that psi does exist, so I don't think there should be any further discussion of that.

            As for gallup polls, well, in the end, this is a consumer driven society, as well as a democracy, and, if the hard core skeptics can't convince the majority, they will be increasingly irrelevant. IOW, I don't have to waste time arguing with fringe movements.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Psibeliever View Post
              I agree that we should try and validate as many psi precepts as possible, though I note in passing what Freeman Dyson has said, that the paranormal may be true but may not be testable.
              Dyson thought that psi depended on emotional stress, like in crisis apparitions, and without that stress you couldn't get psi phenomena. Since you couldn't ethically put someone under that type of stress in a laboratory experiment he thought you couldn't study it in a lab.
              But the ganzfield experiments and many other replications have shown that psi does exist, so I don't think there should be any further discussion of that.
              You are right, Dyson was wrong.
              As for gallup polls, well, in the end, this is a consumer driven society, as well as a democracy, and, if the hard core skeptics can't convince the majority, they will be increasingly irrelevant. IOW, I don't have to waste time arguing with fringe movements.
              I think we still need a greater majority since there is still no overt government funding for parapsychology. There isn't the critical mass necessary to overcome the forces in society resisting parapsychological research. These forces are 1) the entrenched powers that control research funding who are afraid they will be the losers if materialism is found to be incomplete and 2) the intelligence agencies that do not want to encourage and abet international competitors in using psi in ways that are counter to our national interest.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Psibeliever
                But the ganzfield experiments and many other replications have shown that psi does exist, so I don't think there should be any further discussion of that.
                So now we can use the Ganzfeld as a paradigmatic, standard experiment in Psych 101, right? Students can be assured of positive results so they can write their papers without having to worry about irreproducibility.

                Psi is crap. I don't think there should be any further discussion of that.

                Originally posted by anonymous
                I think we still need a greater majority since there is still no overt government funding for parapsychology. There isn't the critical mass necessary to overcome the forces in society resisting parapsychological research. These forces are 1) the entrenched powers that control research funding who are afraid they will be the losers if materialism is found to be incomplete and 2) the intelligence agencies that do not want to encourage and abet international competitors in using psi in ways that are counter to our national interest.
                That's funny. Right?

                ~~ Paul

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                • #9
                  You can "prove" anything with polls.

                  And conspiracy theories.

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                  • #10
                    There was a time when everyone would have polled in the affirmative for a flat earth. Game over ? Don't think so. You need more than popular opinion.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Lyander View Post
                      There was a time when everyone would have polled in the affirmative for a flat earth. Game over ? Don't think so. You need more than popular opinion.
                      Agreed. But the purpose of Csiscop now Csi was to bring humanity to the new age of enlightenment, ie, disbelief in the paranormal. Since that hasn't worked, they've failed in their purpose. Hence, game over.

                      And the ganzfield experiments HAVE been reproduced.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Psibeliever
                        Agreed. But the purpose of Csiscop now Csi was to bring humanity to the new age of enlightenment, ie, disbelief in the paranormal. Since that hasn't worked, they've failed in their purpose. Hence, game over.
                        Because of a short-term increase in some people believing in some woo? Maybe that's just the really gullible people but the smart fence-sitters have been persuaded of the silliness of some of these things.

                        And the ganzfield experiments HAVE been reproduced.
                        And other experiments have failed to reproduce.

                        ~~ Paul

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                        • #13
                          Because of a short-term increase in some people believing in some woo? Maybe that's just the really gullible people but the smart fence-sitters have been persuaded of the silliness of some of these things.
                          That's simply not true. The CSI poll refers to an increase from 1976 to 1997, the Gallup poll refers to an increase from 1990 to 2001. This is a long-term increase. Furthermore, the CSI commissioned its own poll and found that, the higher the educational level, the more likely the person was to believe in the paranormal. The CSI's own findings, published in the Skeptical Inquirer, contradict what you said.


                          And other experiments have failed to reproduce.
                          This is your second statement. Your first statement was

                          Students can be assured of positive results so they can write their papers without having to worry about irreproducibility.
                          Which implies that they haven't been reproduced. Now, you are saying some times, they have been reproduced but not others. Which is it? You can't keep shifting the goal post.

                          As for those other experiments, there are meta studies done, and the average shows a hit rate above chance. Now, you don't have to agree with me, but you should at least be fair and say that the experiments have been reproduced at times, and there is some controversy on that.
                          Last edited by Psibeliever; April 12th, 2009, 06:02 PM.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Psibeliever
                            That's simply not true. The CSI poll refers to an increase from 1976 to 1997, the Gallup poll refers to an increase from 1990 to 2001. This is a long-term increase. Furthermore, the CSI commissioned its own poll and found that, the higher the educational level, the more likely the person was to believe in the paranormal.
                            Oh yeah, I remember those statistics. I guess edumacation doesn't counteract brainwashing by the media.

                            Which implies that they haven't been reproduced. Now, you are saying some times, they have been reproduced but not others. Which is it? You can't keep shifting the goal post.
                            When did I say psi experiments have never been reproduced? Of course they have. But there still isn't a standard paradigmatic experiment that can be used in Psych 101 with 98% reproducibility.

                            As for those other experiments, there are meta studies done, and the average shows a hit rate above chance. Now, you don't have to agree with me, but you should at least be fair and say that the experiments have been reproduced at times, and there is some controversy on that.
                            I agree. Some experiments have been reproduced sometimes.

                            ~~ Paul

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                            • #15
                              I agree. Some experiments have been reproduced sometimes.
                              I'm impressed.

                              I salute your professionalism, sir.

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