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Could this be it??? (attention Alex)

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  • Could this be it??? (attention Alex)

    I call myself a skeptic, but I've never dismissed claims of psychokinesis (PK) out of hand.

    I can't imagine a mechanism, but as I've said for others using that argument, that probably says more about my imagination (or lack thereof) than about a possible mechanism for PK that's beyond my reach (and so many thing are .)

    But if we can wrap our minds around a space-time continuum, why not a matter-mind continuum?

    We now have what may be a golden opportunity to turn the world of physics on its head - a forum member, Sandy B, who can make a "PK wheel" turn with her mind. She claims in another thread to have done so recently, and in a lab setting.

    If we can establish that proper experimental protocols were in effect, and if the ability can be demonstrated again, we may finally have convincing proof of PK. If there's video of the recent demonstration, that would be great.

    Alex: isn't this the kind of thing that's right up Skeptiko's alley? I don't know where Sandy is located, but surely we could find someone near her to investigate the legitimacy of these claims and maybe set up another demonstration. Not to debunk, but to verify. We'd need Sandy's cooperation of course, but I imagine she'd be eager to have her abilities confirmed by her peers. Compared to psychic detectives and "dogs who know", this one should be relatively easy to confirm.

    I do not mean any of the above sarcastically - I really think it would be cool if it's all legitimate and forever changes our view of the mind/matter interface.

    And it would be SO cool to be involved, if even tangentially, to such a paradigm-changing discovery.

  • #2
    Agreed, considering the massive effects that are being described. With some precautions and someone trusted running the experiment, this should be relatively simple to demonstrate. Including the fact that electronic equipment tends to short out around her.

    Comment


    • #3
      Sandy will, no doubt speak for herself, but my impression is that she doesn't like publicity relating to her 'talent'. I can well understand this - most of us are posting here without revealing our true identity. Believe me, an interest in psi can damage a science career pretty severely!

      I know we don't still burn witches (not quite sure about some extreme Christian sects) but that mentality is still there below the surface.

      I think Sandy is having quite a rough time, and I think it would be better for her to decline your suggestion - even though, I too would like to know what the outcome of such an investigation would be.

      David
      Last edited by David Bailey; May 20th, 2010, 04:20 AM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by FastEddieB View Post
        I call myself a skeptic, but I've never dismissed claims of psychokinesis (PK) out of hand.

        I can't imagine a mechanism, but as I've said for others using that argument, that probably says more about my imagination (or lack thereof) than about a possible mechanism for PK that's beyond my reach (and so many thing are .)

        But if we can wrap our minds around a space-time continuum, why not a matter-mind continuum?

        We now have what may be a golden opportunity to turn the world of physics on its head - a forum member, Sandy B, who can make a "PK wheel" turn with her mind. She claims in another thread to have done so recently, and in a lab setting.

        If we can establish that proper experimental protocols were in effect, and if the ability can be demonstrated again, we may finally have convincing proof of PK. If there's video of the recent demonstration, that would be great.

        Alex: isn't this the kind of thing that's right up Skeptiko's alley? I don't know where Sandy is located, but surely we could find someone near her to investigate the legitimacy of these claims and maybe set up another demonstration. Not to debunk, but to verify. We'd need Sandy's cooperation of course, but I imagine she'd be eager to have her abilities confirmed by her peers. Compared to psychic detectives and "dogs who know", this one should be relatively easy to confirm.

        I do not mean any of the above sarcastically - I really think it would be cool if it's all legitimate and forever changes our view of the mind/matter interface.

        And it would be SO cool to be involved, if even tangentially, to such a paradigm-changing discovery.
        I'm always happy to help encourage/coordinate (rather than do) these kinds of things. But, as David mentioned, Sandy would have to drive the process.

        Comment


        • #5
          I can well understand this - most of us are posting here without revealing our true identity.
          I do so only as a matter of oversight:

          Ed Benson
          Mineral Bluff, GA, USA
          FastEddieB@mac.com

          Comment


          • #6
            Sandy,

            Thanks for responding.

            I really don't mean to impugn or doubt your abilities - I really hope they're real.

            But I looked at you blog and video, and then came across this:

            YouTube - Psi Wheel revealed!!

            Certainly convection would have to be controlled for - was it in your lab tests?

            Comment


            • #7
              Science of Scams. Nice.
              Get past the name and see if it helps illuminate.

              Or not.

              Comment


              • #8
                Thanks for posting that video Eddi.

                Now, I suppose proponents could say, "Just because Darren Brown can reproduce a certain effect using physics, doesn't mean its not psi when Sandy does it." But is it not more likely that Sandy was using common physics without really knowing it? No shame in being fooled, it is pretty amazing! My first thoughts of how it was happening was pretty far from the reality.

                This is why skepticism is important. Skepticism is not a belief system, its a thought process. There is nothing wrong with approaching these types of claims from skeptical point of view. Sometimes pretty cool things have pretty natural causes. The universe is a pretty amazing place even without the paranormal.

                Comment


                • #9
                  There is nothing wrong with approaching these types of claims from skeptical point of view.
                  Yeah.

                  I mean, suppose Sandy B lives near me in N GA, USA, and Alex calls on me to help test her claim. My wife pulls some favors and we get someone from a physics or psych lab at the University of Tennessee to set up a "lab experiment". When we get there they take one look, smile, and say, "That's an old trick - here's how its done..."

                  How much wasted time and gas, when less than a minute and Google led me to that video.

                  Like I said, I don't want to debunk Sandy B's claim. But if we're going to do any sort of peer review, even just on this site, don't we owe it to ourselves to at least consider simple explanations?

                  I'm assuming that when Sandy says they did her test in a lab, they must have controlled for convection and/or air currents.

                  Right?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I agree that the paper should make for an interesting read. Look, I'm not a scientist, and I hope you weren't offended by my post. I watched a video of you on your website showing something that you attributed to psi that has been shown alternatively to be reproducible using very ordinary physics. I don't know what the results will show about what was going on in your brain at the time. I am very much interested in the results (and hopefully someone can explain in layman's terms!)

                    Neither am I in a position to comment on what might be going on if the psi wheel is inside a jar. Youtube has several people doing that. Some suggest a similar temperature effect. At this stage I have no reason not to assume that similar laws of physics are involved. I mean no disrespect here. I am in no way doubting that you can make it move within a jar, people clearly can do this. The question to be answered is why.

                    I am not an expert and must rely on others. All I can do is hear all the sides and try and form an opinion.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by OC68
                      I think she took it in the spirit in which it was meant.
                      I hope you're not suggesting that I meant to offend (internet is sometimes hard without tone).

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I would suggest you wait for the papers to be published and then send your questions to the researchers if you feel the need to be critical of this work.
                        I feel no need to be critical of his work.

                        But once published, there will be a virtual army of skeptical scientists who's very job it is to be critical of other's work - its how science functions. It will have to withstand that scrutiny to be accepted into the body of scientific knowledge.

                        I look forward to the publishing of the paper, and hope it all bears out.

                        Part of that had to do with picking a time when geomagnetic readings were high.
                        I may have to wait for the paper, but why would that be relevant? Is psychokinetic power theorized to be magnetic in nature? If so, why would it work on paper?

                        But anyway, please let us know when the paper gets published.
                        Last edited by FastEddieB; May 19th, 2010, 10:18 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by FastEddieB View Post
                          Sandy,

                          Thanks for responding.

                          I really don't mean to impugn or doubt your abilities - I really hope they're real.

                          But I looked at you blog and video, and then came across this:

                          YouTube - Psi Wheel revealed!!

                          Certainly convection would have to be controlled for - was it in your lab tests?
                          Duh .......what a helpful video

                          I don't think you need to worry about the parapsychologists testing Sandy in that manner.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Google is my friend.

                            But without spending hours, the first hit for psychokinesis is the Wikipedia entry.

                            Not much talk of magnetism there. I'll try your suggestion next.

                            It just didn't make sense to me - the brain doesn't seem to have organelles which could form/shape/direct magnetic fields, nor are the targets always ferrous in nature.

                            Not to say it might not be one of many explanations.

                            Scanning the Wikipedia entry, it seems pretty complete - and skeptical.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by OC68
                              I don't think you meant to offend but I found your tone somewhat patronizing. I need to get some sleep- I'm feeling full of snark tonight. Anyway, I apologize if I misread it.
                              Maybe it came out that way, didn't mean it to (like I said, sometimes its hard to impute tone into a post). If so, then I apologise. I just think that around here proponents treat skepticism as this horrible, negative, thing. It's used almost as a curse word.

                              Sandy directed us to a blog post where she posted a video of her doing something which she attributes to psi. I watched the video, then the video that Fast Eddi posted, plus a few more. It seems that there is an entirely non-psi explanation for such a phenomenon. I understood Sandy (and others on youtube, apparently) to believe that it was actually psi.

                              My point is that there should be nothing wrong in approaching these types of claims skeptically. We should not start from the presumption that something supernatural is going on. That's a conclusion we can reach later, if the evidence supports it.

                              For what its worth, I apply this to myself as well. We all have weird things happen from time to time. I'll go through this same type of thought process for myself.

                              Anyhow, no offence meant Sandy. You posted it for discussion, and it is an interesting one. I really am interested to find out the results of the research study.

                              Comment

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