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Why is the Immaterial Mind Desirable ?

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  • #16
    Usually the word 'desirable' is used to make an arguement look like its born out of wants, which is closely followed by attributing it to needs, which is one step away from pathologizing the position.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by really View Post
      Your the first to answer the with depth, good.
      LOL!

      David

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Arouet View Post
        I think the OP is a bit misworded. You're mixing two concepts here:

        1) is it true, and
        2) is it desirable


        There is no conflict if one answers yes/yes, yes/no, no/yes, no/no.
        Actually it wasn't I that used true. It was eveshi then Paqart that first used that word. Of course there's no conflict. It's not a yes or no question. It is a question of convictions.

        A lot of effort and time is put into debunking the material origins of the mind in favor of the pro immaterial consciousness idea that does to me suggest more is vested into the pro idea, something more than just wanting to know whether it's true or not.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by really View Post
          On this forum there's much talk that there is an immaterial component to consciousness at least in part by and by some wholly. Those that believe this have never stated why. So I'm asking: Why is that important and desirable ?
          This is such an asinine question it's not worth answering.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by really View Post
            Actually it wasn't I that used true. It was eveshi then Paqart that first used that word. Of course there's no conflict. It's not a yes or no question. It is a question of convictions.


            Fair enough, probably a better way I could have put it would be the "why do you believe in it" part as separate from the "do you think it is desirable part." (rather than simply is it true).

            A lot of effort and time is put into debunking the material origins of the mind in favor of the pro immaterial consciousness idea that does to me suggest more is vested into the pro idea, something more than just wanting to know whether it's true or not.
            We could say that for pretty well any topic on the net. It may be that people believe certain things bcause they want it to be true, or it could be that they believe it because they are convinced for other reasons. I suspect among proponents that there will be those who think there are pros and cons to it being true.

            for example: telepathy. In some ways it sure sounds cool - so why not want it? But it doesn't take too long to come up with a number of negatives (hearing 1000s of minds in your own mind, not having any privacy, learning things you did not want to know, etc).

            we could do the same for remote viewing, precognition, obe's, etc. Pros and cons. Good aspects and bad.

            Whatever the truth is of psi, I don't think "you guys just want it to be true" is sufficient to explain the beliefs. For some, yes, but not on this forum I think. While I may disagree with a number of things with the proponents on this site, they have clearly put thought into why they believe what they believe.

            As for being vested, I think we all get vested to one extent or another, though of course we should all aim not to be.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Interesting Ian View Post
              This is such an asinine question it's not worth answering.
              I think you're right, but that makes me feel a bit like a chump because I answered it more than once

              AP

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              • #22
                Originally posted by really View Post

                A lot of effort and time is put into debunking the material origins of the mind in favor of the pro immaterial consciousness idea that does to me suggest more is vested into the pro idea, something more than just wanting to know whether it's true or not.
                So the only reply that you take seriously, was the one from Open Mind, who was rather obviously joking (that is what the smiley is meant to convey).

                Either we are having a conversation about abstract ideas, or we are having a conversation about obscure psychological motivations for everything. You seem obsessed with supposed psychological motivations of others here, and I can't help wondering why. What is there in your past - maybe something psi-related - that you need to deny?

                David

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by eveshi
                  A lot of effort and time is put into debunking creationism, too.
                  Creationism isn't the topic.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by David Bailey View Post
                    So the only reply that you take seriously, was the one from Open Mind, who was rather obviously joking (that is what the smiley is meant to convey).
                    I was in a hurry this morning and did not read what they wrote carefully enough. I have since change my reply.


                    Originally posted by David Bailey View Post
                    Either we are having a conversation about abstract ideas, or we are having a conversation about obscure psychological motivations for everything. You seem obsessed with supposed psychological motivations of others here, and I can't help wondering why. What is there in your past - maybe something psi-related - that you need to deny?

                    David
                    I see nothing wrong with trying too understanding different convictions. I'm rather curious to understand what makes and the why the immaterial mind is important. In the case of proponents on this forum is it a matter of spirituality, looking for transcendence, a desire to escape this mundane reality or to know I am special. I don't know that's why I asked

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by really View Post


                      I see nothing wrong with trying too understanding different convictions. I'm rather curious to understand what makes and the why the immaterial mind is important. In the case of proponents on this forum is it a matter of spirituality, looking for transcendence, a desire to escape this mundane reality or to know I am special. I don't know that's why I asked
                      Why, as David has recently pointed out, do you insist on assuming that proponents are psychologically motivated. The answer to your question was given in post #2 by eveshi...belief is based on following the evidence, it is important because it may be the truth, and the truth is what we seek.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by really View Post
                        On this forum there's much talk that there is an immaterial component to consciousness at least in part by and by some wholly. Those that believe this have never stated why. So I'm asking: Why is that important and desirable ?
                        Obvious trapper is really obvious.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by vikki View Post
                          Why, as David has recently pointed out, do you insist on assuming that proponents are psychologically motivated.
                          I haven't met a single person that isn't psychologically motivated.

                          Originally posted by vikki View Post
                          The answer to your question was given in post #2 by eveshi...belief is based on following the evidence, it is important because it may be the truth, and the truth is what we seek.
                          You mean to tell me that it's no more important than say learning that the maximum length of a duck’s penis depends on the company he keeps. This is a rather remarkable group of posters on this forum.

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                          • #28
                            Hey really, what's so great about a completely material mind? All your arguments are in favor for it, so why do you want there to be a material mind so bad?

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Sock View Post
                              Hey really, what's so great about a completely material mind? All your arguments are in favor for it, so why do you want there to be a material mind so bad?
                              I've never said that. My position has always been on the subject of the paranormal: How can you be so certain ?
                              Now it's your turn to explain why an immaterial origin of consciousness is important ? If that's what you believe.

                              On a personal note I find there's enough wonder in the material world too satisfy me.

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                              • #30
                                Why not having it both ways?

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